Iomega, Class Act or Class Action?:
A Continuing Study Into
How Iomega Treats
Its Customers and Employees

Mail Received 10 Oct 96 to 13 Nov 96

Other correspondence:

June 1997

May 1997

April 1997

March 1997

February 1997

January 1997

December 1996

Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:43:46 +0000
From: Cliff <Cliff_Neal@connstep.state.ct.us>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Zip Tools V.5
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm 

I haven't been able to download the software successfully (was unexpandable). That was a couple of weeks ago. I visited the site agin today to try again and couldn't even find 5.0 again to try downloading it again. I did an Alta Vista search on "Zip Tools V.5" tp find the right spot to try and download it again and the only hit I got (pretty unusual) was your site.

If anyone has actualy successfully downloaded this software I would like to know how they did it.

Thanks

Cliff

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:31:02 -0700

To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>

Subject: Re: Utah v Iomega? 

Great!

May

To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: Cliff K Neal <Cliff_K_Neal@connstep.state.ct.us>
Date: 14 Oct 96 17:53:43 EDT
Subject: Re: Zip Tools V.5

Re: Your message: >P> =======================

-- My pleasure. Hope that this helps.

If I decide to quote people who support my position, may I use your letter? May I use your email address?

Best wishes!

Steve Langford

=============================

Yes I don't mind too much if you reference me. Thanks for the help. I have got three of the Zip Drives and about 20 of the Zip Disks and have had a variety of "irritating" problems with them (however all in all, for the price they are a pretty good deal). I like being able to carry the data between locations and just have the applications on the PC's at different locations.

I am Mac based and although they are still advertising a V.5 Tools for the Mac I still don't see it (last week any way). The one out there is about 4.3.2 or so for the Mac. I could have sworn at one time they did have a Mac V.5 (the one that wouldn't expand after downloading), but maybe I am wrong.

Actually I have found the revisions of the driver to be somewhat of an irritant. They weren't compatible with one another and it gave me some problems before I got all three drives updated with the same driver (all three at different locations).

Also a lot of the bells and whistles they have added have just added to the confusion without really adding to the basic functionality. "How do I turn all these things off" is my reaction.

I am having a lot of difficulty working the Zip Drives with a new PowerBook 5300 I just got (keeps stalling when copying files and installing applications to the PowerBook) but I am now thinking that it is more likely a problem with the SCSI port on the PowerBook rather than the Zip Drive itself. Acts strange.

What feedback are you getting from other people. Am I the only one?

Thanks

Cliff

 

To: s@theriver.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:36:14 PST
Subject: Re: 1.800.2Iomega?
References: <199610220012.RAA23701@pantano.theriver.com>
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5,10-13,15
From: jbc7@juno.com (J B C) 

Your actions are to be commended! What you do, helps everyone who will find it necessary to deal with Iomega, and needs their cooperation to successfully solve their iomega product problems.

Under the circumstances Iomega is getting off light. The technical response I got that forced me to abandon my quest for a Zip was their machinized non-human anonymous, no-questions asked 'help'line that was a no-brainer, as well! Iomega company projected the idea that no problem was so big that buying MORE of their equipment wouldn't solve.

Thanks again Steve, a GOOD JOB!

 

   ._.       =               ^   0       ^0^                        ^   ^
   \_   (js)\.    GBY&Y

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 08:53:20 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: [Anonymous]
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: [Anonymous]
Subject: Re: 1.800.2Iomega? 

Why don't you take the software and let the rest be?

The Iomega folks have enough trouble trying to pull their customer service operation together in the face of incredible demand for their products.

Don't give them any more. Let them work it out without the threat of distracting law suits...

Why go to all this bother just to claim a $200 victory?

Send them an encouraging thank you note and wish them well. . .

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:57:21 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: [Anonymous]
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: [Anonymous]
Subject: Re: 1.800.2Iomega? 

Today's business model doesn't usually allow for a personal support component.

That's why most software vendors charge for calls. Most corporate accounts, for example, would rather separate out support costs from product costs, as they can take care of support internally. So they drive down the unit price to the point where the publisher -- or manufacturer in the case of peripherals -- can't afford to give away good customer service. . .

For myself, I don't expect to use support unless something just flat out breaks.

In the case of Zip drives, you are getting a lot of product for the money, and you pretty much take your chance. If it breaks, count on buying another one, just like with worn out toner or inkjet cartridges. Tough model, but there it is. . .

I agree Iomega takes the "to hell with the customer" attitude a bit far, but you have to go into something like that with your eyes open. To expect reasonable service in such a situation is -- IMHO -- an unrealistic assumption. You are just tilting at windmills to make them fit your idea of what the business model should be. . .

Hey, if that's important to you, fine. I tend to be a bit more pragmatic about the way the business operates these days. . .

From: "Gene Godsoe" <geneeg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Iomega?
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:56:41 -0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 

Gene

 

To: s@theriver.com
Cc: tdowling@strong-funds.com
Subject: Re: 1.800.2Iomega?
References: <199610220012.RAA23701@pantano.theriver.com>
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,4-5,12-15,27-28,32-33,36-37,39-92
From: karendowling@juno.com (Timothy M Dowling)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 21:46:33 EDT 

i do not understand why it is so hard to get, not just an 800 number, but even a regular phone number for a mail order company sometimes. I've been in these CD clubs and no where in anything that they send to you is a phone number, they just expect you to write to them to straighten anything out and you end up getting a form letter back 3-4 weeks later asking you to send them the same information back that you already wrote them about.

so, is the subject phone # available for them?

is that the first response that you got from Iomega? if it is, its really too bad that customers should have to go through the hassles of writing to the state attorney general to get any response or action. how can companies like that stay in business? at least they admitted their mistakes, more than we ever got Olan mills to do. it ended up costing us about $100 and five trips to the courthouse and we got nothing out of it. They had lawyers come up from Tennessee and just when the judge was about to award karen the case (even though he spent a long time laughing about it earlier) their lawyer showed the judge an unpublished change in the law, which actually had happened because of all the lawsuits that were brought against olan mills, that didn't allow someone to file a claim against them until they had harrassed at least one additional time.

have you been using your scanner to scan these letters in?

It's perfect!

I forgot to tell you, instead of receiving customer service I keep receiving coupons and other materials in the case I buy more stuff from them! So their marketing works just fine! they should swap!

Thanks

 

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:37:21 -0700

To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>

Subject: Re: My intended letter to Iomega, for your kind review and 
  comment, please: 

Good Luck!

May

PS: I'd consider posting this on some newsgroups or sending a note to some of the sites suggesting they link to where I assume you have this posted on your own site. You might even have a form to fill in for others who are dissatisfied.

 
X-Sender: [Anonymous]
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:45:39 -0400
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: [Anonymous]
Subject: Re: My intended letter to Iomega, for your kind review and 
  comment, please: 

To: s@theriver.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 18:12:34 PST
Subject: Re: My intended letter to Iomega, for your kind review and 
	comment, please:
References: <199610242108.OAA15666@pantano.theriver.com>
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,7-8,10-15,17
From: jbc7@juno.com (J B C) 

I hope, Steve, you get better responses once Iomega's public relations twits see how serious the public end user's feel about technical non-service from a company making big bucks that cause so much frustration.

Meanwhile, I wish you a very restful night, so you can get up feeling your best tomarrow. Good luck, and thanks for including me :))

I'm looking forward to seeing a bit of fur fly ;>

Take care, stay safe

 


   ._.       =               ^   0      ^0^                        ^   ^ 
  \_   (js)\.    GBY&Y 

Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:26:27 -0400 (EDT)
X-Sender: bl17@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu
To: s@TheRiver.com
From: bl17@cornell.edu (Barbara LeGendre)
Subject: iomega 

I too have complaints about getting through to Iomega. If you need another voice to join your own, just let me know. How can they continue to survive as a company if they ignore their customers? That's totally beyond me.

Barbara

Barbara LeGendre

bl17@cornell.edu

 

From: Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 14:32:39 +0200 (MET DST)
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Re: My intended letter to Iomega, for your kind review and
  comment, please:
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII 

Hi Cyber-Friend!!!

>What follows is a copy of a letter I intend to send to Iomega Corporation, with a copy to the Attorney General of Utah State, tomorrow (after I sleep on it and give you a brief chance to respond).

>In subject letter, some of you are quoted directly. One of you is quoted anonymously. A few of you are not quoted at all. But I value each of your opinions and seek your permissions to quote you, where you have been quoted -- whether or not anonymously. However, if I hear no objection from anyone to my using your words this way, I shall take your silence to be assent.

Well, just a short note this time. I'm impressed by all the replies you got concerning Iomega! I cannot, however, tell you something about me having problems with the ZIP drives because I simply hadn't any problems (so far, that is...). So you probably won't quote any of my statements which is quite okay, of course.

I connected the drives to a couple of different UNIX workstations yesterday and everything went well although there's absolutely no documentation at all about using the drives on computers other than PC's or Mac's (well, here's something to quote at least :)!

>As always, if you have any thoughts to offer, please share them with me!

Well, I tried ;-)

Have a pleasant weekend,

Stefan.

 

______________________________________________________________________________
Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>		WWW: http://www.pca.dfn.de/~kelm/
DFN-PCA,  University of Hamburg, Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30,  22527 Hamburg (Germany)
                                 Phone: +49-40-54942262 / Fax: +49-40-54942241
             ["finger kelm@www.pca.dfn.de" to get my PGP key] 

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 01:25:31 -0700
From: surak1@ix.netcom.com (R. Jones)
Subject: Re: My intended letter to Iomega, for your kind review and
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>

Wow.

Iomega is likely already suffering information overload.

Cool.

Send it-- as if you haven't already!

--R

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 20:43:14 -0700
From: Andy Voda <avoda@together.net>
Reply-To: avoda@together.net
Organization: Optical Toys
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Well! 

I have just recently purchased an EPSON sip drive (which I had to do for Service Bureau compatibility). I made a conscious choice for the Epson simply because of the disastrous experience I had with the installation of an Iomega Bernoulli 230 last year. I "like" to "joke" that I am the only person in the country with a 230. It went off the market about a month after I received it. I spent 2 FULL days trying to install the thing. I hired a local computer wiz, and only after about 5 hours of his fiddling with it, did we even progress anywhere. And there was more to be done the following day. The short story was that we discovered that drivers included with the drive were over 9 months old, and faulty. This was odd since I had to wait over a month for delivery of the drive, which was ordered directly from Iomega due to a service bureau special which the company sponsored (I received 5 discs at the cost of the drive.) So, besides getting a drive fresh from the factory (according to someone I spoke with in Utah), the drivers were not.

The deal on face value was good, but in the end I was a little taken to see Syquest offerring 230mb disks for their drive at around $40, whereas the Iomega 230 discs remained at $100, and then were taken off the market. Essentially they unloaded a drive, and discs, on an unsuspecting public. Legal perhaps, but ethical, . . . I'll reserve judgement.

I absolutely concur with the sort of experience/complaint you have had with trying to contact them. It is just not possible.

I did have some problems with installing the Epson drive, again because of a driver issue (in this case the right driver was not included AND in their documentation they suggest you NOT install it!) But, getting through to Epson was relative to Iomega, an absolute breeze. Although I had finally gotten the technical answer from the vendor (PC Connection) I made a point of telling Epson about it. I left a long message on their answering system, AND with persistence, got through to a human. She was contrite, helpful, alert. She listened, she asked questions. She offerred to transfer me to techsupport, which at that point was not necessary. Rebate coupons, which were not included in the box were speedily sent. In fact they sent two in two different envelopes. THEN, about a week later I have just received a letter from the head of customer service noting that after a number of attempts to get in touch with me, they have had to resort sending me a letter asking me to call them. He gave me his number, extension and the information that should he not be available I could speak to any other cust.serv.rep. and they could help me as well.

I would like to say it is extraordinary, but I would be saying that only relative to the sort of customer service policy, or lack of policy, that Iomega has chosen.

In the computer world I have learned that you have to go with the best companies, the most established companies.The biggest or the smallest does not so much matter as much as the quality of the service.

But even there, it is tricky. Iomega appears "established". It is easy to get burnt, at least the first time around. It is not always easy to discover the difficulties before the purchase, before they happen. You are certainly doing your part, in this particular niche of things, to reverse this. The web is certainly a great way to end some of the isolation that is in some way the nature of the cybernetic world and that some computer companies take advantage of. I commend your efforts.

One thing I would like to say though: The form in which you lay all the information out is really rather confusing. It is difficult to know where your thoughts end, your letters begin/end, and other peoples thoughts begin/end. Perhaps this is due to the passion of the moment, the need for a speedy construction of the site and/or lack of some html skills

. But in the end, the gist does get through.

Feel free to quote my letter where you need to. Ask me questions if you need to. Good luck. I'll stay tuned.

 
--  
l8r,  
Andy Voda  
Optical Toys
avoda@together.net
http://www.together.net/~avoda/optical.htm 

From: [Anonymous]
To: s@theriver.com (s)
Subject: Re: Iomega: Class Act or Class Action?
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 18:50:08 GMT
Organization: [Anonymous]
Reply-To: [Anonymous]
References: <54vnvv$snj@news.theriver.com> 

I finally found out BY ACCIDENT how to download VER 5 DRIVERS when I got a FAX BACK from them that contained the BBS # and DOWNLOAD PASSWORD. I fiinally got ver 5 software for my DITTO EASY 800 parallel tape drive after one of my install floppys went bad. THE FAX BACK # is 801-778-5763 (you'll see a list of fax back files) and the BBS # 801-778-5888 and the PASSWORD for DOWNLOAD SOFTWARE is "RESTORE".

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:27:27 GMT, 
	in comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc you wrote: 

>Is it time for consumers to institute a class-action lawsuit against Iomega?

>The Utah Attorney General's Office has subsequently demanded that Iomega respond to my complaint of fraud, and I have just (on 25 October 1996) responded to Iomega's initial peace offering.

>You can see it all at

	http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm 

I probably won't be checking back here [this newsgroup --SL, 9 Feb 1997], very often.

>Enjoy!

>Steve Langford

>. . . . .

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 11:17:33 -0800
From: Mike Klimesh <mklimesh@klimesh.com>
Reply-To: mklimesh@klimesh.com
Organization: Klimesh Ornamental Stonecasting
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: imogea 

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 14:23:22 -0600
From: Bob Kelly <bobkelly@.top.net>
Reply-To: bobkelly@top.net
To: s <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Zip Drive a Mess!!!
References: <325ACAAA.5A9D@mosquito.com> 
<325efab2.3058644@news.monmouth.com> 
<53p3ip$shv@boursy.news.erols.com> <3263B3F0.3CC9@bcl.net> 
<326B3737.4E28@inetnow.net> <54u401$883@news.theriver.com>

> 
> See
> 
>         http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm
> 
> "Mr. Dudefulness" <superdude@inetnow.net> wrote:
> 
> >Hugh Prescott wrote:
> >>
> >> Zip drives are sen. to the par. port and apparently several other
> >> things.
> >>
> >> PIA motherboards 486-PVTIO type give all kinds of problems with the par.
> >> port
> >> one will not boot if the drive is plugged in (shuts down the
> >> powersupply)
> >> one produces a keyboard error if the drive is plugged in
> >> one locks up the mouse in windows if plugged in.
> >> one system randomly dies if Zip drivers installed
> >>
> >> All were and still are stable network workstations running without
> >> problems without the Zip drive.
> >>
> >> BTW removing the Netware drivers does not change a thing.
> >>
> >> Some enhanced par. ports do not exactly meet the EPP ECP standards.
> >>
> >> Going to try installing second printer port to see if it is just the
> >> onboard port or ??????
> >>
> >> When they work they are great.
> >>
> >> Hugh
> >> hugh345@bcl.net
> >>
> >> > >>I recently purchased the iomega zip 100 drive, and it has been nothing
> >> > >>but trouble from the start.  I have only transferred 6 MB, which took 1
> >> > >>hour; everything else either was *painfully* slow or it froze.  The
> >> > >>tools freeze, accessing it in explorer (or any other "explorer-type"
> >> > >>program, since i tried others thinking explorer could be the source of
> >> > >>the problem), and any other program or way, it *always* freezes.
> 
> >SYQUEST SYQUEST SYQUEST!
> 
> >Get a Syquest 135MB (or 270MB) and get the IDE one.  Yes, IDE...simpler,
> >faster, faster, and ....... FASTER.  Oh yeah, Ceaper, cheaper, and
> >cheaper, too.
> 
> >1/2 the price of zip, faster access, & more capacity.
> >(IDE is INTERNAL, so if you MUST have portability between MORE than 2
> >computers (you can afford 2 syq's to 1 zip) than they DO make a parll
> >port model, but your speed is gone, and very well may have the same
> >probs.)

 

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 14:28:52 -0600
From: Bob Kelly <bobkelly@.top.net>
Reply-To: bobkelly@top.net
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega Zip Drives: Reliability 

From: [Anonymous]
To: s@theriver.com (s)
Subject: Re: Iomega: Class Act or Class Action?
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 20:29:33 GMT
Organization: [Anonymous]
Reply-To: [Anonymous]
References: <54vnul$snj@news.theriver.com> 

Some more info for you:

Send email to SUPPORT@iomega.com

the subject should have the type hardware you drivers;updated software for. They will respond automatically by email with a list of DOCUMENT #s. The list will be in TEX or DOC format. My EDURO mail reader would NOT decode the list format. I got gibberish After I resubmitted my email req I went into NETSCAPE 3.0 to recieve the mail response from IOMEGA. Netscape DECODED the TEX format and I could read the document list. After got several FAX BACKs that how I discovered the BBS # with the list of UPGRADE SOFTWARE for my DITTO EASY. I don't think you'll find waht what you need on their FTP site..THEY ARE NOT ORGANIZED & THEY DON'T KNOW HOW to COMMUNICATE INFO. OrTHEY JUST DON"T GIVE A RIP! They're MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY.

[Anonymous]

From: [Anonymous]
To: s@theriver.com (s)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems
Subject: Re: Iomega: Class Act or Class Action?
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 03:27:03 GMT
Reply-To: [Anonymous]
References: <54vnul$snj@news.theriver.com> 

 

X-Sender: [Anonymous]
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:55:48 +0000
To: s@TheRiver.com
From: [Anonymous]
Subject: Iomega tech support: my experience here in Europe 

If the quality of Iomega support out of the US is interresting for you, here is my experience with it. If you feel that my story is representative, you may post it... Just run your favorite spell-checker before. :-)

I have a SCSI Zip, many of my friends also do. 0.00 problem so far. Anyway, I'm using this drive on a non-PC, non-Mac computer. It works well, but, of course, special features like password protection are not available without dedicated software, wich I wanted to write. But which "vendor-specific" SCSI commands does the Zip use?

I emailed this question to Iomega support in Ireland (euro.support@iomega.ie). Few minutes later, I received an automated mail like "thanks for your interrest, our staff will reply to you very soon...". In fact, they never emailed me back, but I received by snail-mail a ~80 pages manual explaining everything one wants to know about the Zip. Free and in 1 week.

In Switzerland, Iomega support is (was?) a toll-free number. A friend of mine called them to order the ZipTools in english. He was put on hold for ~10 mins, but he got his disk the next morning.

In conclusion, for me, Iomega support was perfect. But it's one single case, and in Europe (where a Zip drive costs ~US$200). I understand that the general situation in the US may be completely different.

Good luck for your action(s)

[Anonymous]

 

From: Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:27:12 +0100 (MET)
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Re: Iomega tech support: my experience here in Europe
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII 

 

> -- Thank you very much for giving me such a positive report on Iomega in
> Europe,  [Anonymous]!  I am taking the liberty of sharing this with my friend Stefan, in
> Germany, as well as with several other interested parties. 

Last weekend I took the time to read all the mails you got from other people regarding Iomega. I'm really impressed by your work, Steve. As I told you in an earlier message I don't expect anything from any support staff in the world but I'm finally convinced that you're doing a very good and important job!

Have a pleasant week,

Stefan.

 

______________________________________________________________________________
Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>                WWW: http://www.pca.dfn.de/~kelm/
DFN-PCA,  University of Hamburg, Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30,  22527 Hamburg (Germany)
                                 Phone: +49-40-54942262 / Fax: +49-40-54942241
             ["finger kelm@www.pca.dfn.de" to get my PGP key] 

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 19:51:05 -0500
From: [Anonymous]
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega Zip drive
X-Url: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm 

I now use Zip for archival backup. I was apprehensive about using Tools, esp. since I am a new user of Win95 on a new Pentium. However, everything has worked perfectly.

I keep the Zip permanently connected so that Win95 recognizes Zip as a removable drive, and the passthrough to my laser printer works transparently.

My best friend put me onto the Zip, and he has not had trouble with Zip under both win 3.x and Win95.

I am from Mass. and have no connection with Iomega, etc.

HOWEVER, I am perfectly willing to believe all the horror stories you list. I have told a few of my own in other connections in articles for the PC Report of the now defunct Boston Computer society.

I am quite l,ong in the tooth and have had my share of problems in my long life. It is unfortunate that you people feel obliged to resort to the law to rectify your problems. If you have ever tried to design a working product, you will realize that there are always glitches, and that they are seldom intentional.

Having said that, I wish you all good luck.

[Anonymous]

X-Sender: mail28356@alterdial.uu.net
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 12:41:22 -0500
To: s@theriver.com
From: [Anonymous]
Subject: iomega 

Just for your info, I download both the Mac and Windows free ZipTools without a single problem at 12:00 PM EST (Peek Hours) from thier web site. Then again I have an ISDN line :) I downloaded both in about 10 minutes.

This would be interesting if you win.. sueing a company for bad customer service...I know a few >:)

[Anonymous]

Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 12:47:39 -0100
To: s@TheRiver.com
From: "Guy D. Smith" <gy@mcn.net>
Subject: Iomega Issue
Cc: surak1@ix.netcom.com 

Please feel free to use this message in any way that you see fit.

I may have yet to see the days, weeks, months at the hands of Iomega's arrogance that you and others have. But, just having passed the 4-6 week window that we were all given in the beginning; I don't want to just stand around kickin' cowchips.

I was reading a post by, "Michael D. Schuster" <schuster@CTAZ.NET> in the IO-MUG Mailing List Digest when I was finally set to act on the miriad other items of the same character that I have seen everywhere.

I purchased a Zip Drive and a ten-pack of disks from MacMall on 3, September 1996. By the material that I sent in two days later I was suppose to receive a $50.00 rebate for the drive, a $20.00 rebate for the disks, a carrying case to carry it all in, and a copy of Now, (is that spelled I-o-m-e-g-a too?) Software's Contact/Up-to-Date bundle.

I just got off the phone, (888-2iomega, which I found on Rob's website) with Iomega's Promotional Fullfillment department. They were rather quick by the standards that I had been led to expect. As well as rather quick to pull me up from their database. But I was informed that my stuff was still in the system and that I should call back if I have not received my goods inŠ 3-4 weeks.

As I've said, I have yet to feel the sting so severely as many others have. But I have felt it from perhaps as many different directions as others have. And this is what further endeared me to the work that you two have been doing. I too have been saddened by the vanishing presence of tech support in the computer industry on numerous occasions. I have also wondered at every turn if there was anything that I could do about it.

I am currently handicapped, unemployed, and waiting on the local Social Security office to act on a decision awarding me disability. I am also trained in Graphic Design and trying to train myself to design websites. If there would be anything that I could do to help in the Iomega issue, or any other, please let me know.

Guy D. Smith
523 E. Babcock ST   #3
Bozeman, MT   59715
voice: (406) 587-4896
fax: (406) 582-9257
e-mail: gy@mcn.net

___________________________

"Sumtimes ah jus' sets an' thinks...
an' sumtimes ah jus' sets ‹

Gy..
<gy@mcn.net> 

Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:50:45 -0800
From: mojo <mojo@foundation-i.com>
Reply-To: mojo@foundation-i.com
Organization: Foundation Imaging
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: I owe mega 

Rob sent me to you. I complained to him about my unholy experiences with Iomega and he said I should tell you. I'd be happy to sign myself onto your class action suit!

I bought a Jaz drive, had some trouble with it and did everything in my power to remedy the situation with the provided documentation.

As this didn't work, I went about looking to contact Iomega tech support.

Of course, I discovered that there WAS no tech support unless I was willing to shell out 20 bucks a call!

This is an outrage and a blatant example of complete disregard for the consumer once their money has been taken. To not offer SOME free support to a person who has just shelled out 400 bucks to your company is absolutely unforgivable.

Let's get the bastards.

MOJO

 

From: Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:25:32 +0100 (MET)
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Re: Seeking information -Reply -Reply
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII 

Just for info: here's the (non-automatic) reply I received from Iomega when I requested the manual Olivier told me about.

Greets,

Stefan.

 

______________________________________________________________________________
Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>                WWW: http://www.pca.dfn.de/~kelm/
DFN-PCA,  University of Hamburg, Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30,  22527 Hamburg (Germany)
                                 Phone: +49-40-54942262 / Fax: +49-40-54942241
             ["finger kelm@www.pca.dfn.de" to get my PGP key] 

----- Begin Included Message -----


>From EUROSUPPORT@IOMEGA.COM Thu Oct 31 18:35 MET 1996
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:26:18 -0700
From: EURO SUPPORT <EUROSUPPORT@IOMEGA.COM>
To: kelm@pca.dfn.de
Subject: Re: Seeking information -Reply -Reply
Content-Type: text

Dear Stefan,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We do not sell this technical manual here in Europe.

You could however contact the States to see if you can buy it there. 
You can contact them via the internet:  http://www.iomega.com or send
an e-mail to "support@iomega.com.

Best regards,

Siobhan Murphy
eurosupport@iomega.com


>>> Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de> 10/31/96 10:30am >>>

thanks a lot for your prompt reply. I was pretty impressed to read a german answer! I'd already found the informationen you sent on your web server, that's why I was asking for documentation about SCSI commands.

A friend told me about a manual called "Iomega Zip 100 Removable Disk Drive, Technical Information", Ref. EN144301, Dec.95 which I'm interested in. Is this manual available somewhere and what would it cost?

Thanks for taking the time to answer!

Greetings,

Stefan.

______________________________________________________________________________
Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>                WWW:
http://www.pca.dfn.de/~kelm/
DFN-PCA,  University of Hamburg, Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30,  22527 Hamburg
(Germany)
                                 Phone: +49-40-54942262 / Fax: +49-40-54942241
             ["finger kelm@www.pca.dfn.de" to get my PGP key]
 

Reply-To: <brucetea@aol.com>
From: "Bruce W. & Janice L. Tyler" <bjtyler@poboxes.com>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Iomega
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 05:34:12 -0800
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 

I use an external Zip drive and an internal SCSI Zip drive. Have never had a problem. Love Iomega.

While I respect your passion (I have similar feelings about Peachtree Software), you must realize that not EVERYONE has your problem. Your class action attempts will not work as Iomega has showed no intent to defraud. What are you going to sue them for?

I cannot comment on their customer service as I have never had problems with my Zip drives. I have read however, that many people who need them, can't get to them - which distresses me. I am hoping to see the zip as the new "floppy standard" and it won't happen with poor CS.

Bruce Tyler

From: BruceTEA@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 04:27:53 -0500
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Re: Iomega 

I did read most of your site and by no means am I trying to be condesending or trvial.

 

 >The problem is not only Iomega, by any means.  However, their great
 >success, coupled to lack of user support, makes them a prime target for
 >trying to set some legal precedent, IMHO. 

  
>>  you must realize that not EVERYONE has your problem. Your class
>>action attempts will not work as Iomega has showed no intent to defraud.
>>What are you going to sue them for? 
 > I can not fault you for not having read my entire site, but the fact is
 >that they have admitted that they take my complaint very seriously.  

> When they say that they are making download available at their site
>but it is (was?) virtually impossible to download from that site -- for
> weeks -- I say that this constitutes a bait-and-switch fraud tactic:  Get
>the customers wanting the product, make the free stuff unavailable, and then
>sell them the disk when they give up. 

>Two state Attorneys General saw enough logic in that argument to >forward my complaint to Iomega, who acted quickly to try to get me to shut up.

Good work.

>>I cannot comment on their customer service as I have never had problems
>>with my Zip drives. I have read however, that many people who need them,
>>can't get to them - which distresses me. I am hoping to see the zip as the
>>new "floppy standard" and it won't happen with poor CS.
> -- Right!  But Iomega has evidently arranged something with Epson, to both
> companies' mutual advantage.  People who buy Epson Zips to avoid Iomega are
> really fooling themselves, I guess -- because the Epson product still
> carries an Iomega logo.  This suggests to me that Iomega is profiting from
> the so-called competition. 

 

>Thank you for taking the time to share your feelings and
>perspectives, Bruce!  :)) 

>I am posting your letter anonymously.  If you would like me to add 
your name and email address, please say so. 

Bruce Tyler

X-Sender: eco@pop.interaccess.com
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:21:41 -0600
To: s@TheRiver.com
From: Eco <eco@interaccess.com>
Subject: great net citizenship 

Do you know of a more general site that covers complaints about all computer makers and products?

I found one a while ago that was very good, The Moan and Groan Page, but they don't seem to be operating <http://www2.tsixroads.com/Moan/>. There is a real need for this.

With warm regards,

- Steve Balkin

X-Sender: eco@pop.interaccess.com
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 11:03:48 -0600
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: Eco <eco@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: great net citizenship 

> I have just taken a quick look at your own page, bookmarking it for >future reference. It looks like a nice beginning! :))

>-- RIGHT! Shall we form a for-profit Better Computer Business User's Group >(or whatever)?

--I think it should be an all volunteer non-profit effort unless you have the energy to make it a for-profit project. How about the "Computer Consumers' Complaint Group."

We need some lawyers to join us.

Tell me a little of your background. Be well. - Steve

Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 09:50:44 -0800
From: mojo <mojo@foundation-i.com>
Reply-To: mojo@foundation-i.com
Organization: Foundation Imaging
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: I owe mega
References: <199611010337.UAA01771@pantano.theriver.com> 

Steve Langford wrote:
> 
> I like that "I owe mega"!
> 
> I am also interested in your name Mojo.  I believe it is an Ojibway name.
> How do you come to use it? 

>May I publish your note to me with your email address?

 
 
> Next:
>
>The problem is that we do not have enough people for a class, yet,
> and I have had no luck at all finding a lawyer.
> 
>I am pondering what to do next to find a lawyer willing to take on a
> class-action lawsuit on a contingency basis, and intend to say something
> about it at my Web site.  If you have not yet seen it, please go to
> 
>	http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm
> 
> and let me know what you think. 

 
> At that site, you can find the address of the Attorney General's
> Office, Utah.  I suggest that people should be writing to that office
> directly.  But, I am busy trying to put together a way to publish at the
> site what email people send me.  It is made tougher because many people
> write me but never write back with permission to use what they send me.  
> so, I do my best. 

Let me know what else I can do.

MOJO

From: "Eugenio Andres" <eandres@ctv.es>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Iomega
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:06:36 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

I am not connected to IOMEGA in any way, but this is much better than most other products I've had, plus a lot cheaper. I don't regret losing a ZIP cartridge (just like floppies sometimes are bad), and the ZIP drives have been a real help, plus much cheaper than any previous alternatives. (Before the ZIP I was considering buying an optical 230MB drive or a Syquest for about $600 !). Therefore I don't understand your efforts to go against a company that has brought cheap and easy removable storage to the rest of us.

My guess is you're trying to make a quick buck attacking someone who's got the dough - ain't it? And isn't that the reason for your web page?

I hold in contempt those who attack successful people and companies. I have had a few companies myself and I've seen how difficult it is to succeed. Therefore I respect people who succeed, I don't attack them (unless they go after everybody else).

Come on, get a life, do something constructive and leave other working people alone.

From: Tim Dowling <tdowling@strong-funds.com>

To: Eugenio Andres <eandres@ctv.es>, Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
Cc:  Jean Stillwell <Chalengr@wg.isis1.net>,
        Cliff Neal <Cliff_Neal@connstep.state.ct.us>,
        Stefan Kelm <kelm@pca.dfn.de>, Mehdi Daoudi  <mehdi@inx.net>,
        Mojo <mojo@foundation-i.com>, Rob Jones <surak1@ix.netcom.com>,
        Tim Dowling <TDowling@strong-funds.com> 
Subject: Re: Iomega
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 16:53:00 PST
Encoding: 13 TEXT 

Nobody has ever gotten rich off of a class action lawsuit, except the lawyers.

You, Eugenio, would be more likely to get the quick buck, because there is no work for you to do.

Steve is doing ALL of the work for you (for free). What he seems to be trying to get from Iomega, is better customer support for everyone, including you.

I have not yet had to deal with this company, but have dealt with many like them.

There should be more people like Steve Langford, who take the time to help others.

From: "Gene Godsoe" <geneeg@worldnet.att.net>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Iomega???
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:38:15 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 

Thanks for forwarding your comments. I have looked through it and am not quite sure what to make of it overall. My own complaint has to do with 16 weeks waiting for my rebates of $140 for two drives and two 10 packs, not to mention the "kits" that were to be sent if they were all on one receipt, which they were.

Perhaps I am not seeing the trees in the forest, but it appears that your complaints have to do with defective hardware or at least customer support to achieve a level of performance.

If there is a movement afoot for any kind of legal pressure to resolve the rebate problem, I would like to be pointed in that direction. Fortunately, my two ZIP drives perform flawlessly under Win'95. I do have one bad disk, right out of the box. But as it is guaranteed for life (mine or the disk), I thought to wait until I have several or all my friends pool them for one return shipment.

As for the good side of Iomega, I installed beyond count, dual Bernoulli 20-20 systems, and then 150's before I retired. I never had a failed drive and only after 5 or 6 years did I see any failed 20 meg disks. Iomega seams to be like AT&T and a number of other companies that have 1st class engineering and manufacturing capability, but a bad customer support attitude. Nothing short of the entire trade publications going against them will change it. Remember Lotus and Ashton-Tate that ate dirt rather than remove copy protection. Only when the fed's bared copy protected software from being used by any US Gov. agency did they end it. I don't know what could be done about Iomega unless the state of Utah could enact a law requiring 7 day repair/replacement turnaround of any defective product under consumer protection. Having their corporate headquarters in Utah could make them liable for any Iomega product anyplace.

I will be looking for any further developments you may pass along.

Gene

From: "Eugenio Andres" <eandres@ctv.es>
To: "Steve Langford" <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Iomega
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 05:39:25 +0100
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 


> Dear Eugenio:

>         Thank you sincerely for your honest letter, which I try to answer, below:
 
> At 09:06 PM 11/1/96 +0100, you wrote:
>>I have bought three Iomega ZIP drives and about 20 cartriges so
far.   One drive quit because of putting it on a non-Iomega power supply.  The other two 
(1 SCSI, 1 parallel work perfectly). Of the 20 cartriges, 19 were good, 1 was bad.
>-- Sounds good to me!  I like my parallel ZIP drive very much, too -- and have yet to have 
a problem with it.  Credit where credit is due, I say!  :))

>>I am not connected to IOMEGA in any way, but this is much better than most other products
I've had, plus a lot cheaper. I don't regret losing a ZIP cartridge (just like floppies 
sometimes are bad), and the ZIP drives have been a real help, plus much cheaper than any 
previous alternatives. (Before the ZIP I was considering buying an optical 230MB drive or 
a Syquest for about $600 !).  Therefore I don't understand your efforts to go against 
a company that has brought cheap and easy removable storage to the rest of us.  

> -- Fair enough!  And, well said.  Thank you for stating your doubts so clearly.
 
>>My guess is you're trying to make a quick buck attacking someone who's got the dough - ain't it? 
And isn't that the reason for your web page?
 
> -- Somehow, I wish it were that simple!  If it were, I'd save a [batch] of time and 
forget the whole thing!!  ; ) )   Please understand:

>To me the question of product/user support goes far beyond problems [with] Iomega:
 
>         1. I believe that many of the problems we computer users face so  routinely would be 
             much less difficult and less frequent if companies were  to pay more attention 
             to detailing for users as well as for vendors just what the [compatabilities] and 
             incompatibilities are, in the first place.  Good manuals should be available, 
             and they should have good indexes.  Quality counts.

>         2. I seriously doubt that I'll ever get any financial benefit from this work.  In fact, 
             I am having a hard time finding a lawyer to take this seriously.  If, in fact, 
             a punitive award ever should be assessed against Iomega, this highly successful company 
             will hardly be put out of business by such a judgment, is my guess.  Nor is it my 
             intention to do such harm to Iomega or any other company.  I agree with you that it is 
             hard to succeed and that success deserves honor.  So long as honor is a two-way street, 
             of course.  Companies that arrogantly dishonor their users deserve what they get 
             as a result.
  
>         3. In my own experience, too many companies, in the computer  industry, too quickly send 
             users with problems to the other companies  involved in interfacing problems, rather 
             than handling the calls themselves  in the first place.  Iomega takes it one step 
             further -- no free user  support at all!  (Well, that overstates my case a bit, but 
             it is almost that  bad.)  I can point to computer-related companies in the USA that 
             provide  good, 1.800, free technical support to their users.  Something like that  
             should be more of a standard than the "example" set by Iomega in the  
             user-support arena, IMHO.

>         4. Users have come to expect routine problems with computers.  But  Iomega is a company that 
             has now led the way by showing that products can be essentially trouble-free!  Unless 
             they are not trouble free, of course.  What does the guy who just spent $400 on a 
             new drive but can not get it to  work feel like doing to Iomega, you should ask.  Do you 
             want him to eat his  drive?  You can read what HE wants to do at

			[http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/mailin.htm]

How do you know it's a problem of the Jaz drive and not of his computer? (a Jazz drive requires 
a SCSI adapter that can be quite tricky to set up. I had lots of troubles even with Adaptec SCSI 
cards - the best on the market - on a low quality motherboard).

1 gig removable drives (optical at that time) were more than $1.000 before Iomega started the 
price war about a year ago. In that light, $20 does not seem that much. In any case, most stores 
have money-back guarantees, so he could always return it if he can't get it to work.


>                 http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/mailin.htm
 
> His is one of the last letters posted there to date.
 
>         5. If more users would complain more loudly and effectively against companies 
             who do not bother to support their users, perhaps I could turn my attentions to 
             things that interest me much more than all this does.  However, IMHO, it is 
             high time for somebody to set an example of some company as to what minimal 
             user-support standards really ought to be met in  the computer industry.

I am a consultant and I'm finding compatibility problems every day.  I am really fed up with them, 
so I couldn't agree more with you. I have found that quality is SEVERLY on the decline, in my 
opinion due to the fierce price war that does not leave any margin for quality checking and giving 
a decent service. Most companies have gone very cheap. Some have not gone quite that cheap and those 
are the ones I buy from.

Amongst these Iomega, Gigabyte, Hewlett-Packard, US Robotics, Acer, Creative... and some 
local suppliers that are a little bit more expensive (about 10%) but that provide me with 
good quality stuff for memories, etc. - these guys still have some problems, but 10 times 
less than the others. And even if you put a good piece of equipment (e.g. an HP Laserjet) 
onto a bad one (e.g. a bad parallel port on a cheap motherboard), you'll have problems. 
So even if you do make good equipment, you're bound to get problems, as soon as you connect 
to some lower quality, faulty or non-standard gear.

In my opinion it is desirable to get a good service, but be prepared to pay for it either directly 
or through higher products prices.  I don't believe there is any financial margin left at all 
in their operations (just look at Syquest, that had to stop making their drives because they even 
lost money on them!). And usually most of the margin is going into lower sales prices (I paied $200 
for a ZIP last year and now I saw them for $130 !) 

I've been in this field for a long time and 10 years ago everybody had a hefty 30% sales margin at 
much higher prices and made enough money to go and install the computer at the client's office, 
help him, talk to him, etc. The field was blooming and everybody was making money. Now 
computer companies are closing or struggling left and right, even one time "biggies" like Borland, 
IBM, etc.  As far as I can tell they are mostly "squeezed" as much as they can be 
(with rare exceptions).

So If one of the few halfway "decent" companies around gives you (mostly) good products at a 
good price, I'd rather be grateful and if you have some complaint, well push them and kick them 
in the a.. if you want, but please bring your complaint forward in such a way that it does not 
harm the companies we all depend on. I don't want to have to go pay the old Syquest prices again 
or see a $20 increase in ZIP drives to cover the cost of a suit... or have four competing 
standards and end up with a "Betamax" type removable drive.
 
>>I hold in contempt those who attack successful people and companies.
> -- I share some of your contempt for such people.  
 
>         On the other hand, I hold in contempt people who put no bridles at all on their own 
personal greed, such as CEOs whose unbounded perks are essentially rip offs from potential 
stockholder profits.  Our world needs a better sense of balance in such matters.   [It] is shameful 
for management to take home such multiples of workers' salaries as is so common in the world, 
today, I believe.  Obscenity is limited neither to pornography nor to violence; it is also common 
to the world of high finance. 
 
(As an aside: I am earning a "worker's" salary, if not a bad one.)

But my opinion is:  Salary depends on fair exchange.  What is fair exchange for what a CEO does? 
Well, what did he do for his company their clients and the people in it?  The answer to that 
tells you what fair exchange is. In the case of IOMEGA, man would I have loved to have a guy 
like that in MY company and make ME rich.  I don't care how many megabucks he takes home.

Same goes for Microsoft - if you are in their camp. Gates made everybody in his company rich. 
Loads of people who have Microsoft shares have made tons of money This doesn't mean 

I endorse their business practices, but if you're in their camp, man is Gates worth his 
weight in gold!
 
The other side of the coin is people who are getting paied for not doing a job or for doing 

a very bad one or for doing nothing at all - I don't care at which level - janitor, 

CEO or "financial emperor".

But an executive at a company is very different from a "high finance" guy.  An executive
in a company PRODUCES something valuable (or he won't be there for long, or otherwise
the company won't). A "high finance" guy, a speculator, does not produce anything valuable,
he just "steals" money from you and me by tricking us. Just look at all that "finance" and
"economy" stuff they try to make so complex at the banks aso that nobody understands
their rip-offs and they can just go on doing it. Every time I talk to my bank I have arguments with
them because they think I'm stupid and don't realize they are tricking me out of my money by paying
me slow, charging me fast, paying very low interest (if any) and charging a very high one, etc.
  
>>I have had a few companies myself 
> -- What is your specialty?

I am a software developer and consultant. I'm not doing badly, but I'm not getting rich (yet).

>>  and I've seen how difficult it is to succeed. Therefore I respect people who succeed, 

I don't attack them (unless they go after everybody else).

> -- Iomega is attacking users through benign neglect.  Do you think I have invented 

all these stories?  Go to some of the related sites that you can find listed at 
 
>                 http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/related.htm

> and see whether or not you then believe that I would better spend my time baying at the moon.
 
>>Come on, get a life, do something constructive and leave other
>>working people alone.

> -- I would die for your right to express such an opinion, but I wish that you would give me 

the benefit of the doubt and thoroughly to research my Web site before coming to so shallow 

an opinion of me.
 
I just looked at the letters you received and it seems like there is a mixture of both good and 

bad experience.
 
Let's put it like this: My 2c: Fine if you complain. Fine if you set up a Web page to pressure them 

to give better service. Go ahead and do it if you feel like it.  But no killing these guys please.  

Go kill some criminal companies if you feel like it, but please not Iomega nor HP nor Gigabyte, 
Sony and the like. I like their stuff. It's ten times better then the rest.
 
>         I think it only fair to point out to you that two states' attorney  general's offices 

found enough merit in my claim to warrant pursuing the matter.

Well, lawyers are lawyers and have to have enough conflicts a year to justify their jobs, 

personnel, etc.  I don't sympathize with lawyers at all.  From my point of view in general 

we'd be better off without them. They brought us the Lotus "look and feel" issue that was 

dragged out for years to make them rich and crippled Borland and did not contribute to Lotus 
at all, plus thousands of others. Where lawyers come in, they win and everybody else mostly loses.
 
>         May I use your letter, your name and your email address?
 
go ahead as long as you use it in its entirety, unedited.

>         Thanks for a nice (incisive) letter!  :))

Sorry if it was too acid. Thanks for your kind reply (I honestly expected some big flame or something).

Regards,

Eugenio Andres. 

X-Sender: mudshark@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 16:24:19 -0500
To: s@TheRiver.com
From: Mudshark <mudshark@pipeline.com>
Subject: Demands????? 

I am not quite sure why you are doing this. You are dissatisfied with Iomega. The answer is simple: DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM AGAIN. Your demands state:

 

>1. An email address for an identified Iomega representative,
>          with whom I may communicate more effectively and directly. 

How about if they give you the person's home phone also and mothers address and home phone and just in case you can't reach anyone at those places maybe God's e-mail address. They already offer an e-mail address for customer service.

>2. Your promise that by a date certain Iomega will initiate and
>          maintain a 24-hour-per day, 7-day-per-week, nationwide,
>          telephone (1.800) service that is without any charge and is
>          manned at effective levels; for the technical support of
>          existing users and of potential customers. 

This is a moronic request. You are trying to tell them how to run THEIR business. They may not wish to spend THEIR money like this. If you don't like how they do business I repeat: DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM AGAIN.

 

>       3. Your promise that Iomega will give customers reasonable 
>support by email, as well. 

Again, trying to tell them how to run THEIR business. If you don't like how they do business I repeat: DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM AGAIN.

 

>4. Your promise to monitor the WWW in an effort to seek out
>          disgruntled customers and equitably to fix their problems. 

Ditto the above reasons. Ditto the solutions.

If Iomega's customer support and products are that bad then they will lose market share and go out of business.

It appears, and I assume (as you assume you can use my e-mail for your own use, not very good netiquette) that you want to start a class action law suit becuase of poor customer service. Companies are not required by law to give customer service. IT IS good business sense, however. I have heard lots of good things about Iomega and I have heard lots of bad things also. In my business I hear lots of good things about my company and I hear lots of bad things (I work for Flagstar Systems, owner of Denny's). My wife (wo works for Ford Motor) hears good things about Ford and bad things about Ford. It happens. My company tries to correct bad customer service and tries to build on good customer service. Not all companies are like that. For those that don't change there is bankruptcy.

If you just want some action on what you call bait and switch then go for it. I personally don't think that it is since THEY HAVE MAILED YOU A DISK WITH THE TOOLS ON IT!!! What more do you want from them other than full corporate ownership (that is what it seems like with your "Demands").

--

Richard Sava

Mudshark

"Do you really have a hit record on the charts, now, with a BULLET?"

From: BruceTEA@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:36:31 -0500
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Re: Iomega 

Just a note to let you know that I have received and read your latest. If at all possible, but me on your "mailing list" of people you reply to you and those that you keep 'posted'.

I will write Iomega via Email and put my two cents worth in. Poor customer service is not to be tolerated and if I had problems with my Zip's and needed them, I would expect them to be there for me - and I will make this known. Too bad you are not a member of AOL. There is an Iomega stock message board where you could post your experiences (in the Motley Fool section). 'Couse, the IO bulls will try to shove shit down your throat but, the truth is the truth.

I wish their CS wasas good as their Zip products. Honest to God, I love my Zip drives so much. Currently own 18 Zip disks. Have most of my programs from diskettes on them. I have a travel case for the PP Zip!! Jeez, I am a Zip nerd, aren't I.

I'll continue to monitor your site for info.

Keep it up Steve. Like has been said before, I may not totally agree with your position, but I respect and will stand up for your right to argue it and be heard. God, I wish there were more like you and me - people who give a crap and have enough integrity to not be a "victim". Most people just say' Oh well, that's the way it is, I have to live with it". Bull !!

Drive that stock price down buddy. I won't buy it back unless it hits 15 again. I got lucky with US Robotics. Bought in at 56, sold at 71 then it went to 82 (naturally) and now has fallen back to 60 (9% employee layoff's announced this week). May be a good time to get back into that one.

Take care

Bruce

PS - If you ever want to talk voice, my # is [not for public consumption]. I'll split the bill with you (I'll call you and then you call me - that kind of thing). I'd love to hear more about this verbally.

 

From: "Bruno Fernandes" <hybrid@interlog.com>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: IOMega and all
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:16:55 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 

About a month ago I tried to download the softwware upgrade. I found that their web site was a LOT faster than it was last January. But because of the demand for the new updates, it was under considerable load. Either due to that load, problems with my server or fate the transfer was taking some time. I believe it would have been successful nonetheless, but accidentally logged off forgetting that it was still going. :) I went on about a week ago and downloaded the entire update for Win95 in a flash though.

A company does not have to offer free software of any sort. A company does not have to offer upgrades nor even bug fixes to software for free. You agree to the terms of any licencing agreements accompanying the software. The only thing the company is bound by is what they write in their warranty. The warranty outlines your only rights, legal or otherwise. Anything other that what is mentioned in the warranty in terms of support or other extra functions is to be considered good-will on the part of the company. It's what companies do to keep people extra happy and coming back. A company not offering these extras can be shunned in the marketplace and lose a lot of business, but they are breaking no laws. They are simply running their business as they see fit. If you think the company does not deserve your business, then you are free not to give it to them. And if you require the product with extreme urgency, there are now other companies selling the same products. For these reasons I cannot agree with any user actions against Iomega or any company for that matter. I have not found anything on your web site, including all correspondance to give me cause to change my opinion regarding this specific matter.

It is completely unreasonable to make the demands you outlined in your letter to IOmega. I actually found them to be quite arrogant.

Anyway, my only beef with IOmega right now is their software. But then again, it was FREE. The interfaces are extremely primitive for starters and performance isn't exactly top notch. About the only serious complaint though is that the new driver software causes VXD blue-screen application failure on the properties tabs for Zip volumes. Same thing happens on friends' systems. I'll be writing to them about it shortly.

Bruno

I work full-time for a very well known hardware/software manufacturer (Retail and OEM) and I work freelance consulting and graphic design.

From: "Edward Kurt Whitlock" <edwardw@inconnect.com>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Iomega trouble
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:46:53 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal 

Just happened to run across your site today & thought I'd tell you my story.

I purchased an internal SCSI Zip a while ago & had no problems with it. Had a Jaz & Zip on my Micron at work & decided to purchase a Jaz for my home system.

Ordered it from ComputAbility.

I connected the Jaz & my Zip to an AdvanSys SCSI card & booted up. The card recognized the Zip, didn't recognize the Jaz. It turned out to be a defective drive, and I called up ComputAbility & told them so. They wanted me to get in touch with Iomega and confirm that it was really defective, not just a problem with my installation, or whatever. Not a problem, I said, and that's where all the trouble began.

I called their 800 # and listened to the answering machine message twice, getting more and more angry as I realized I was going to have to call Iomega up long distance and pay them for_my_time trying to resolve this problem with_their_defective drive. I called up their_long distance_tech # and gave them my credit card number, getting more and more pissed off about the whole affair.

After getting hold of a decidedly rude tech rep who kept down-talking to me like I was some juvenile computer-illiterate idiot (BTW, I do systems maintenance as part of my job) for about 15 minutes, he finally gave in and said the drive was defective, and that I should return it. Gee, thanks, like I didn't already know that. His arrogance ("well, that's never happened before" "that has to work, it always works" "are you sure.." blahblahblah) left me with an extremely bad taste.

Anyway, the drive was replaced, and now works fine, but the story doesn't end there.

I did manage to successfully download the 5.0 software, although it took me nearly a week of trying at odd times of the day and night, and was eventually accomplished on one of the systems at work that wasn't being used, taking nearly 3 hours on a_T1_(what's up with that?).

I installed it on my system, and ever since, things have been screwed up. My Zip drive took a major hit. Password protection no longer works on the drive, I lost all the information on three of my disks due to that problem, and using some of the utilities causes my system to crash, lock up, or go all buggy on the display.

Don't ask me what happened, I couldn't tell you. I've tried reinstalling, registry cleanup, just about everything I can think of, and it hasn't helped. Since the h/w was working fine before installation, I'm assuming it's the s/w.

At any rate, I got so torqued over the Jaz drive that there's no way I'm calling up their worthless tech reps to pay them to stew over this one. I've just given up on password protection for my Zip.

Yeah, I_used_to be an Iomega stockholder. Don't get me wrong, I love the technology, but their customer service leaves a helluva lot to be desired.

Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 21:19:49 -0400
From: Richard Lowenthal 
Reply-To: rlowe70@ptway.com
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Right on
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm 

I am scared to death to buy an Iomega Zip Drive. All I have heard in our little northern Michigan county, is that if it has a problem, "Good Luck", you are on your own.

We have very very little support in our area. We are a county of 9000, 45miles from the nearest four lane road (not even a super hiway), and have one stoplight and seven billboards in the county. We depend upon "800" numbers for support. Now, what do I do to get additional storage, buy an Epson? Are they really any better?

As I indicated above, I am an Apple user. They have great tech nelp and loads of "800" numbers. They only have big external hard drives which, in light of what I have read and heard may be what I must buy.

Steve, do you have an opinion about what to buy now? Is Epson' zip any better considering all points of view?

Feel free to use any or all part of my paper. I have been hearing the reports of poor tech help about Iomega for some time and that is why I have held off buying their product and investigating other options. I may be miniscule but there are lots like me looking for another product.

 
Please give me an opinion ASAP
Richard Lowenthal
[ Address and phone number deleted. ] 

Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:30:57 -0400
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: rlowe70@ptway.com (Richard Lowenthal)
Subject: Re: Right on; THANKS!!  :)) 

Again, I appreciate the comments on Epson and will do my own investigating and report back to you. However, if I did not need the portability of the Iomega/Epson, what is my next best option to get some storage?

Keep up the good work. It may start a movement about getting support from other computer companies, i.e., Symantec experience below:

For a number of months I had difficulty with conflict between Symantec and Globalvillage. Symantec charged me but did not solve the problem.I spoke to my telephone and charge card companies and they REMOVED THE CHARGES ON MY REQUEST, AND TOLD SYMANTEC.."that's it!"

I also wrote Symantec and complained. They apologized and sent me a big and expensive application. I wrote again to the executives and explained what happened and threatened not to buy the updates and even switch to a competitor. They said they woould work on it.

About 3 months ago I called. They answered in a short time, there is no longer ANY charges, and they encouraged me to call anytime I had a problem, AND SENT ME THE LATEST UPGRADE AT NO COST.

Of course, they are having competition with Now, Virex, and a number of other companies. However, they are to be commended and you may want to use my letter to show what Iomega could do. BTW, they also have a web site that is good.

Stay warm. It is snowing here in Michigan but Lake Michigan still looks beautiful from our home.

Richard Lowenthal

Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:43:29 -0800
From: Vince Gargiulo <palisades1@aol.com>
Organization: Palisades Amusement Park Historical Society
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: My story 

*****

Today I get a letter from "Your Customer Service Representative" telling me that I would not be receiving my $70 rebate or my "free stuff" because my invoice didn't fall within the date range for the promotion. My receipt was dated 9/18/96. The PS at the bottom of the letter said that I was in luck. The promotion has been extended through 9/30/96 so I could go out and "buy more Iomega Stuff".

The thing that gets me is this "Customer Service Representative's" letterhead does not have a name or a phone number for me to contact. Your web site also seems to be making a great effort to hide all information about your firm. Several email attempts on my part were never answered. Exactly what is your company trying to hide?

I have full intentions of pursuing this $70 rebate as well as the "free stuff" that your company promised. Your offer constituted a legal contract and I shall protect my rights as a consumer. As far as I am concerned, this is fraud.

I will track down your address through Internic and you will be hearing from me again.

Vince Gargiulo 
palisades1@aol.com

***** 

[ OOPS!

Vince and all, sorry for any confusion that I may have caused on this: Pamela Crabtree is the contact at the Arizona Office of the Attorney General. She forwarded my original complaint to the Utah Office of the attorney General, so Crabtree is now "out of the loop." If you want to write to an Office of the Attorney General that has jurisdiction over Iomega Corporation, please address your letter to:

                          Beth E. Kearsley
                          Complaint Analyst
                          Consumer Rights
                          Office of the Attorney General
                          State of Utah
                          160 East 300 South
                          Box 140872
                          Salt Lake City
                          Utah 84114-0872 

and refer to "Complaint from Stephen A. Langford." You can FAX Ms. Kearsley at 801.366.0315.

					-- Steve Langford, 5 November 1996 note in addition. ]

Vince

Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:04:15 -0800
From: Bob Johnson <arlcops@startext.net>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: IOMEGA SUPPORT

IOMEGA? - No Way!

               Buyer Beware - Read My Nightmare

I attempted to contact Iomega via their WWW site (http://www.iomega.com). That's when the nightmare started. Their "support" e-mail is a poorly designed automated response system that merely regurgitates the same elementary "tech" notes that are already available for viewing on their web site. These tech notes are of no use at all for someone having problems with Iomega products.

The ONLY way you can get ANY help at all is to call long distance, be placed on hold for up to an hour, then pay $19.95 to Iomega to answer your question. It's impossible to e-mail on the web and get a human to respond. Letters to the corporate offices, faxes, and phone calls are consistently and totally ignored.

I returned the drive, card, and defective software due to the virtual non- support policy of Iomega. Iomega does not support their products and I refuse to purchase from any company that treats their customers in such a shoddy manner.

Don't be ANOTHER disappointed buyer. Steer clear of Iomega. I think we may be seeing the beginning of the end for IOMEGA. If they can't support their customer base with decent technical help, it should not take long for them to get knocked off their arrogant high horse.

                        You've been warned...	
-- 
Bob Johnson  apd@airmail.net OR arlcops@startext.net
 o
 |_
(_)\,  Disabled but not disarmed...

Bob Johnson has recently passed away.

I sense that we have lost a real friend.

Sincere condolences to Bob's family and friends.

-- Steve Langford, 19 March 1997

   
From: DeRegil@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 12:47:47 -0500
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Iomega Scam

Steve,
Your site has been very helpful, there are many unhappy consumers of this
product on America On-Line. Below you will find a copy of my faxed letter on
11/10/96 to:
Beth E. Kearsley, Complaint Analyst
Consumer Rights
Office of the Attorney General, State of Utah160 East 300 South
Box 140872
Salt Lake City
Utah 84114-0872 
FAX 801.366.0315

POSTAL INSPECTION SERVICE
UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE
1745 STOUT ST STE 900 
DENVER CO 80202-3034
Phone : 303-295-5320
Fax : 303-295-5351

I'm looking for Steve Case's number. Once I find it he will have a copy also

Here it is (its long)

RE:	Kim Edwards, CEO
	Iomega Corporation
	1821 West Iomega Way
	Roy, Utah 84067


RE: Iomega Rebate Offer
I am writing this letter to the Postal Inspection Service, Beth E. Kearsley,
of the  State of Utah, Attorney General's Office, and Steve Case - America
On-Line. In the past three weeks I have attempted to resolved my rebate
problem, needless to say I have had to turn to you for help. 


Iomega in their Nationwide Rebate Offer stated that there would be a $50
dollar rebate with the purchase of their product call the Zip drive. The
rebate program provides additional incentives both in dollars returned to
customers and free gifts with the purchase of additional items such as
diskettes that work with the Zip drive. Their coupon states that the refund
will come in 4-6 weeks. Many consumers have been getting denial letters as I
did, and other have to complain for weeks to received their rebates, yet
others will never see their rebates due to various conditions that were not
disclosed to them before purchasing the product.  


I received a letter on Oct. 25, 1996 dated Oct. 8, 1996 telling me that they
(IOMEGA) require the original receipt before processing my rebate. I sent the
all the required items including the original invoice to IOMEGA via
Registered U.S. Mail Article Number P120618083 on Aug. 26, 1996. Iomega's
rebate coupon indicates to allow 4-6 weeks for a response. I have photocopies
of what I send IOMEGA and can forward these at your request. Some people on
the Iomega America On-Line forum have received this similar letter. 


I called the 800-818-9728 Iomega or its agent's marketing line and was in
touch with Customer Service on Oct. 26, 1996 with Nisha. Nisha told me that
they did have the original receipt/invoice (contrary to the letter IOMEGA
wrote me stating that my original receipt was not included in the items they
received) however it was hand written. I told her that I cannot do anything
about that, this is the way the vendor sold it to me. She then told to write
a letter to:
Qualification
P.O. Box 4900
Fenton, MO 63099
I sent the first follow up letter to them on Oct. 26, 1996 and the second on
Nov. 8, 1996 to the aforementioned address. I have called the following
people: 


Mr. Kim Edwards - President and CEO; I also e-mailed him the following on
11/6/96 

------- 

Hello, 

My name is Carlos De Regil and I purchased your ZIP product (first time I
purchased anything from Iomega) a few months ago due to the great rebate and
free "stuff" offer. I know that you maybe too busy to address this e-mail,
however I will go on with my message. Currently, it is very obvious that your
company has not been forthcoming with the rebates. I get excuses all the way
from your administrative assistant (who doesn't return calls) to the people
who are chartered with the task of cleaning this mess up. Furthermore, it is
evident that your employees are avoiding this problem as well (listen to
their voice mail messages - they all refer callers to the "agency" that runs
your rebate mess - would you call this good customer service?). A large
number of us are very unhappy here at the American On-line Iomega Forum -
hopefully you will address us as to your remedy.
Sincerely,
Carlos De Regil

cc: America On-line Iomega Forum

P.S. I waited and tried for 3 weeks to fix this myself before resorting to
this method. 

----------

I then called Mr. Edwards and informed Linda Smith that I have e-mailed him
and posted a copy on the Iomega America On-Line Forum 


I have also called Ms. Juanita Coughoff- Executive Assistant to Mr. Edwards
and Heather Anderson who said she would sent a form to the agency in charge
of rebates. Finally I threaten to send a letter to both the Postal Inspection
Service and Beth E. Kearsley, of the  State of Utah, Attorney General's
Office. I have reason to believe that my chances of their follow though is
slightly better now. However I decided on principle to file this complaint in
order to correct this situation for all others that are currently having the
problem and those that are yet to be lured.  


Many consumer have bought their drives via MAIL ORDER companies that promote
this offer. I believe that there might be a conspiracy to defraud consumers
from their rebates. Although Iomega has not taken in money via U.S. Mail, it
has received consumer's original receipt, Rebate coupon, and the cut outs of
the bar code labels from both the products (Zip Drive and/or the Zip Disks)
and these items constitute property. As a result of not having this property
it prevents myself or other consumer from returning these items. This to me
is a sort of scheme. The least I expect from them is an offer to return
customers their money if they so please to return the product to them. 


Iomega seems to be banking on the fact that some consumers will go away and
others such as corporations won't send in their rebates or complain, no crime
in the latter. It appears to me as a PYRAMID plan. If only 30% of the rebates
are issued, the remaining 70% not only finances the rebate project, it also
contributes to some great revenue/profits for the company. If true, this
could this be a violation of some U.S. Law dealing with mail fraud and/or
interstate commerce. 


Iomega in lieu of providing consumers the reduction in price, have able to
maintained an artificial Average Sale Price to improve their financial
semblance. As a result the company can claim higher normal profits and the
rebate promotion then becomes a cost of sale. In essence the profit margin is
reduced, however the revenue looks great. This "average price" is most likely
the stem of their other scam/stumbling block. This stumbling block is the
cause of why some consumers cannot get their rebate. If the consumer
purchased the product below this "average price" (what it is I don't know)
they will most likely received a letter claiming that the price they paid in
purchasing the Zip drive includes a discount/promotional price and thus voids
their rebate obligations. This sounds like price fixing. 


As you may already know I am not alone. By visiting the following web pages
and newsgroups you will find others in the same light: 

http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm
http://www.akula.com/~jwu/iomega.html
and 
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage 
I have found that many have attempted to rectify this with Iomega. I just
went one step further to its' top executive Mr. Kim Edwards. He has purposely
ignored my e-mail, his tech support representative e-mail me - stating that
Mr. Edwards will not be replying. 


Finally,  many consumers are having customer and technical support issues
that I haven't personal experience yet. Apparently if you go to the
aforementioned sites you will see the numerous complaints against Iomega.
Their customer/tech support representatives do not provide much satisfaction,
however there are exceptions. From what I've read at these site it seems that
Epson (a company that sells and distributes Zip type drives under their own
name) doesn't have as many problems or is as the poorly managed as Iomega. 
Sincerely,
Carlos De Regil 
   
From: "Forrest J. Cavalier III" <mibsoft@epix.net>
Organization: Mib Software
To: s@TheRiver.com
CC: mibsoft@epix.net
Subject: My comments on action.htm
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm
[Received 13 Nov 1996.  --SL, 12 Jan 1997] 


Since you claim not to have gotten very many comments contrary to
your views, I feel obligated to send mine. 


I use an Iomega 150 (Bernoulli) Multidisk. 


While I believe that you and others have had troubles with Iomega,
does it really reach the level of class action?  Are you crazy? 


Where do you think all of the expense of providing the
kind of customer support you require is going to go?  Is
Iomega going to be able to keep their price the same?  What
do you think makes mil-spec products so expensive? 


The solution to all of your problems has already been
invented.  It is called capitalism.  If you don't like
Iomega, don't buy from them.  If you have a problem
with their products, send them back for a refund. 


I believe it is in the best interest of Iomega to have
good products and good tech support.  Companies do not
survive long in the world without it.  But REQUIRING
through the use of lawsuits is just another form of
taxation that makes my blood boil. 


By the way, I could "only stomach" the opening page of
your site.  You may quote this message only in it's
entirety, unedited. 
Forrest Cavalier
Mib Software

   

  ( Your letter could have gone here. )   
 
   
 

---

NAMES, ADDRESSES, & LINKS; PEOPLE AND GROUPS TO WHOM

YOU CAN WRITE

Perhaps the comment I need to make most often, when I read letters from people complaining about Iomega, is that it does no good for us to complain to each other. Please write to those in positions of authority, about such matters.

My responses to the above messages can be found at

My responses to mail received 10OCT96 to 13NOV96

Other Correspondence:

August 1997 Correspondence

July 1997 Correspondence

June 1997 Correspondence

May 1997 Correspondence

April 1997 Correspondence
 
March 1997 Correspondence

February 1997 Correspondence

January 1997 Correspondence

December 1996 Correspondence

By the way, you might like to visit "Seatbelts for School Buses"

Thank you for your interest!

Sincerely, Steve Langford

 LETTERS OTHERS HAVE SENT TO UTAH'S OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL  


 LETTERS OTHERS HAVE SENT TO IOMEGA CORPORATION  


 RETURN TO HOME PAGE  


 

©Stephen A. Langford, Oro Valley, Arizona, 6 August 1997.  
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  
This document may be freely transmitted in its entirety, 
so long as no monies are earned during the transaction/s.  
Permission is required for any and all other pertinent circumstances.




 (Metering for this page begun 31 October 1996.  Last edited on 1 January 2006.)