Iomega, Class Act or Class Action?:
A Continuing Study
Into How Iomega Treats
Its Customers and Employees

Play "Hey Jude", if you like! :))
[Thanks to Daniel M. Rothschild for sending me this and other MIDI files! --SL, 24 June 1997]

(In MSIE you may need to hit either ESC or the MSIE Stop button to kill it;
or maybe you'd like simply to turn your volume way down.)

JUNE 1997 CORRESPONDENCE

Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 16:28:40 -0400
From: Robert Munafo <munafo@gcctech.com>
Reply-To: munafo@gcctech.com
Organization: GCC Technologies
To: s@TheRiver.com
CC: rpm%mrob.uucp@spdcc.com
Subject: Degaussing ZIP disks
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/fromiomg.htm

[Hi, Robert! :-)

Are you required to return the bad disk? Are you certain that iomega will not be able to figure out how to read your confidential data, if so -- even though you think they have been "erased"?

Thanks for this warning to others! :-) --SL, 17 June 1997]

From: centrvid@ecentral.com
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:16:20 -0600
Organization: Centre Communications
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: IoSucka
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/kearsly1.htm

[Hi, Lianna! :-)

You are far from alone in this crusade against iomega, as this site and others show full well.

You are welcome, you are welcome! ;) Thanks for doing what you can to share your story with the authorities.

Thanks, too, for your kind words and for writing! --SL, 17 June 1997]

From: "Jeffrey M. Roberts" <wendell@netaxs.com>
To: "'s@theriver.com'" <s@theriver.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 14:50:47 -0400

Stephen A. Langford" s@theriver.com

Dear Steve.

[Hi, Jeff! :-)

I really can not fault you for not having spent enough time to read everything at my site! In fact, though, iomega sent me a

and a free Tools 5.0 diskette -- which I have left unopened because I know that if I ever were to have problems with it, I could never count on getting help from iomega. I have explained repeatedly why I keep on fighting iomega, despite their apology and free Tools 5.0 disk.

I am pleased that you did not encounter the problems I encountered, and I take some pride in believing that your way may have been made much smoother by my having taken so tough a stand on this and related issues.

Your disk problems might well be due to iomega having resorted to manufacturing those in Malaysia, using purportedly poorly-trained and youthful labor. Please see

Thanks for your offer to help me out, but I guess I am "beyond help" now. ;-)

Thanks for sharing your story, Jeff. I hope that things turn out OK for you. --SL, 17 June 1997]

Subject: Re: Iomega rebate
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 97 16:48:09 -0500
x-sender: maxmacs@mailhost.iamerica.net
From: Randy Chevrier <chev@bigfoot.com>
To: <vevans@cyberbeach.net>
cc: <S@TheRiver.com>

Randy Chevrier
[Address and phone numbers withheld as a courtesy.]
chev@bigfoot.com

[Hi, Randy! :-)

Thanks for sharing this good news! --SL, 17 June 1997]

Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 08:15:33 +0000
From: Jordan Sparks <lifteasy@cdepot.net>
Organization: Lift Easy, Inc.
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: No Iomega!
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/mailout.htm 

[Hi, Jordan! :-)

Well, I am pleased that you have been bitten by the Boycott Bug

Anyway, thanks for sharing your sentiments and decisions, Jordan. Best wishes! --SL, 17 June 1997]

From: WBieber@aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:07:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Iomega Rebate

Steve, 

which discusses this action.

[Please also see my

--SL, 17 June 1997]

My advice to those who are still short a rebate is to continue to make contact with them frequently until you achieve satisfaction. It has to cost them more to deal with you than the value of the rebate. Eventually they will see the wisdom of removing one more complainer from their files. Failing that, check out the class action site at

Credit goes to Terri Perque of the Iomega Executive Response Team for finally getting me my check. I hope they pay her enough."

[Hi, again, Bill! :-)

My guess is that they deducted your rebate from her paycheck! ;)

Seriously, though, I am pleased to learn that your persistence has finally paid off! I hope that these legal eagles continue to pursue iomega with vigor. I am a bit uneasy that IOM prices have gone up significantly during my vacation. What can be done to tell people more powerfully about these (IMHO) jerks?

More importantly, what can be done to give consumers a fairer shake on a leveler playing field in the future?

Bill, sincere thanks for your taking the trouble to keep me and readers of this site informed and for your kind words, too. --SL, 17 June 1997]

Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 13:09:11 -0400
From: CATHERINE GYEWU <167@idt.net>
Reply-To: IOS7167@idt.net
Organization: Right Burlington
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: keep after those windmills!

9jun97

i was about to go buy a zip drive
i beleive your web pages have convinced me not to
keep up the good work!

-kieth in Boston, MA, US 

[Hi, Kieth! :-)

I am pleased to have helped to dissuade one more person from dealing with iomega!

Thanks for your warm words. Best wishes to you and yours. --SL, 17 June 1997]

From: "Audio-Pro S.A. de C.V." <audiopro@sam.com.mx>
To: "'s@theriver.com'" <s@theriver.com>
Subject: forget about it
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:58:26 -0600

[I thank you for the spirit of helpfulness with which you offer this solution to my "problem," but I seriously doubt that all of the problems addressed at this site are solved at the site you reference. Nonetheless, some readers may be able to benefit from your lead. :-) --SL, 17 June 1997]

Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:37:05 -0400
From: Norman Gillis <norman.gillis@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Iomega ZIP drive rebate
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
Organization: Yale University School of Medicine
References: <199705072127.OAA21497@pantano.theriver.com>

Hi -

 

	Norman Gillis

[Hi, again, Norman! :-)

Thank you for the follow-up story! I am delighted that you have received your rebate and thank you for your kind words. --SL, 17 June 1997]

From: JIM KRETSCHEK <JIMK@eii.com>
To: "'s@TheRiver.com'" <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Iomega, dastardly or you, unrealistic?
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 12:07:00 PDT
Encoding: 47 TEXT

I am responding to this because I have seen more and more statements similar to yours and fail to understand how people can be so clueless. [Gee, thanks! --SL, 17 June 1997]

I have not had much dealing with Iomega so can't comment on their specific problems with tech support but your story sounds pretty familiar. I would have to tend towards the get a life response, not completely but in that direction.

The only thing I can see Iomega guilty of is stupidity as far as long term client relations go but I fail to see why you feel you are entitled to free technical support to make up for what is basically your lack of knowledge to integrate components successfully. [You obviously have not spent much time at my site. --SL, 17 June 1997] You appear to be someone who has had problems and was laboring under the foolish but understandable belief that computer components from different manufacturers can simply be plugged in and made to work. I have used Iomega products in the past and they do work, however I am also not the slightest bit surprised if you or anyone had problems installing them or operating them. [I dare say that I am more computer literate than you give me credit for. I have not made much attempt to attack the Plug-n-Play problems at this site. --SL, 17 June 1997] Still, why does Iomega need to pay to fix a problem you are having making it work with other manufacturers equipment? [If a product is advertised to be Plug-n-Play, it should interface without problems. Known problems with various configurations should be stated clearly, where potential purchasers can be given a fair and clear understanding of what they are facing with potential configuration problems. --SL, 17 June 1997] Is there anything wrong with saying that you should hire someone to figure it out and fix it? [At my site people (including you) may say almost anything, so long as arguments do not become personal attacks on me. When that happens, I feel no obligation to respond or to display such stuff. --SL, 17 June 1997] I understand why it would be much nicer if all manufacturer's equipment would work with all possible combinations of hardware and software out there but fail to understand why you consider this a right. Frankly, if you are demanding that you are being foolish and unrealistic. It is not physically possible due to the huge number of possible combinations of hardware and software, the inability to know if another manufacturer's equipment is working right, the possibility of viruses or other corruption of software and the inability to control what the owner of the computer may have done to it. [I grant that there is much truth to what you say. However, I fail to understand why you see things in such a black-and-white way. I believe merely that some minimum standard of support is owed customers who have just bought peripherals. I would be pleased to see a 90-day, free, 1.800 or 1.888 number. If manufacturers and vendors are not willing to help users through initial configuration problems, given the complexities which you have so nicely set forth, why should users buy those products? A 3-day buyer's remorse period is no help when you can't even get somebody to talk to you -- no matter whether or not you are paying for the call or the technical support as well! --SL, 17 June 1997] So while I don't disagree that Iomega may be behaving foolishly as far as customer relations go I fail to understand why you feel entitled to free support when the problem basically stems from your wanting a free lunch. [You have not read enough of what I have written. I never said that I want a free lunch. I have said that if the price of the product needs to go up somewhat to cover the costs for initial configuration problems, then it would be more honest if the industry were to let consumers see such costs "up front." --SL, 17 June 1997]

The product does take knowledge to integrate if you run into problems. Why should you not pay to have it done? If you don't feel the cost of the equipment plus installation is worth then don't buy it. Maybe I am being unfair but you seem to be someone who thinks he is capable of doing more on a computer than you really are. This seems to be almost a classic case of either someone who knows just enough to be dangerous or someone who refuses to admit he may not know enough to do something. Why should Iomega be responsible for your shortcomings?. [Much more is involved at this site than initial configuration problems, Jim. Perhaps you will gain a better appreciation for the scope of all the problems by reading more of what is presented here and on related pages. As a point of fact, I have never needed to get anybody's help to configure my iomega zip drive. If you were to have read me more completely, before writing, you would have known that. On the other hand, it would be unfair of me to suggest that people should read this entire site before writing! ;) --SL, 17 June 1997]

Jim Kretschek

[Thanks for writing, Jim! I appreciate that you are able to disagree so nicely. I suspect, though, that were you to know me better and were we to have more time to discuss all the issues, you would find that we could agree on more than is left to disagree about. --SL, 17 June 1997]

[The debate continues, below. --SL, 19 June 1997]

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:41:12 -0700
From: econ <econ@sirius.com>
Reply-To: econ@sirius.com
Organization: econ
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega Microsoft and Packard Bell 

[Hi, Brian! :-)

I'll leave the attacks on Packard Bell, HP, Microsoft, and other such behemoths to you and others. Taking on iomega has been enough of a task, thank you very much. ;)

Well, I happen to think that Win95 is OK, though I also toy with getting Linux going again, here -- having toyed with it a bit.

I don't want this site to become a platform for chauvinistic arguments about "best" hardware, OS, or software. My feeling is that if your computer works and does what you need, then be happy! Many people have PCs, and school systems are now investing in more PC platforms than in Macintoshes, if I read things correctly. I would, however, not delight at all in the demise of Apple. I like competition. I believe that it would be sad indeed for the company that gave birth to the Apple IIe and to personal computing to go under. So, though I use IBM clones, I empathize with and support your " long live the mac ."

I don't think that Bill Gates or Microsoft is like Satan. But I do think that iomega, Microsoft, and many other companies should treat consumers more fairly.

Thanks for writing! --SL, 17 June 1997]

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 11:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: larryp@dowco.com (Larry Pfister)
Subject: Re: http://www.rebateinfo.w1.com/

Larry Pfister
larryp@dowco.com
Horsepower Heaven
http://www.dowco.com/horsepower

[Hi, Larry! ;-)

Thanks for the update! --SL, 17 June 1997]

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:40:53 -0500
From: Steven N Spraker <sspraker@keynet.net>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega Zip Drive Rebate Complaint

Get a life. :) 

[Hi, Steve! :-)

Well, actually I have already had more than nine lives. ;)

I am delighted that you received your rebate in a timely manner. I hope to hear from many more people like you, so that I can get on to others of my lives.

Best wishes with keeping your drive names under control and with your computer system/s in general! Thanks for writing. --SL, 17 June 1997]

From: "Carey Mumford" <yoda@multipro.com>
To: <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Me Too
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:05:12 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

[Hi, Carey! :-)

I agree wholeheartedly that the entire industry needs to be policed in these regards. iomega is but one of many companies I might have singled out for this kind of fight. However, I landed on them mostly because they seemed to be as egregious as it gets.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with reformatting. I share your dismay over the thought that one must refresh each disk every few months. I don't know whether or not that is true, either. Definitive comments on that subject are welcome from any quarter.

I am having a few ideas as to how organizations could be formed to solve some of these problems, but start-up capital would be required.

Thanks for your kind words and for writing! :-) --SL, 18 June 1997]

From: lANDZIK@sinclair.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:28:22 -0400
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: aH yAAH 

[Hi, Louis! :-)

I don't know what you mean by " This has happen just recently," Louis, but I think that the policy has been in place for at least a year.

I don't really know what iomega's fundamental, internal problems are, either -- but if they do not constitute outright criminality then they seem (IMHO) to indicate such gross incompetence as to constitute criminal negligence. To have a corporation that can put out such wonderfully innovative engineering, only to have the managers alienate customers this way, is worse than ludicrous. I believe that iomega is shooting itself in the foot as it ignores possibilities for invoking innovative methodologies to provide state-of-the-art customer service that could become the envy of every similar corporation in the world.

Certainly, they have the working capital with which to do such a thing. That they continue to drop the ball in the customer-service arena smacks of criminality to me, but I am in no position to pursue the question through legal channels. I surmise that the situation has become so bad because those in our Federal Government who should for many years have been protecting consumers more vigorously have instead been paying more attention to their golf games than to their jobs. However, that is a mere suspicion. In any case, my respect for our legal system is definitely on the wane.

In any case, I recall that when another respondent to these pages had problems and threatened to return something like 20 jaz drives to iomega, all of a sudden iomega was on site and giving proper support, to keep the account. Try the magic of financial pressure, is my advice!

Thanks for writing, Louis! --SL, 18 June 1997]

From: X7belnap@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:32:25 -0400 (EDT)
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: Zip rebates 

[Hi, Bryan! :-)

I don't have a quick solution to all those problems, except to suggest that you bombard iomega with email, as I have suggested to Ron Craig <recraig2@telcomplus.com>, below, in response to his Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:26:33 -0700 email. Please see what I said to Ron.

However, I would not be quick to trust that iomega will refund your $15 because your drive is defective, even though they may intend to do so. They seem to be so snowed with keeping up with all the demands from unhappy customers that they can't often "get it right," these days, even if they try to do so!

I am not clear as to why you had to wait for your rebate to come through before you discovered that your zip drive is broken. Perhaps this is just they way it happened.

Also, I am not sure why the phone company has disabled 1.900 service, and whether that is just for your phone or for an entire region. Your problems get way beyond my original purposes for this site, but all these subjects are related, in your particular case. Interesting.

Perhaps the only way that you can get iomega to pay attention to you is to spam them, but I would never dare to suggest such an approach and would not take that route myself, due to possible criminal-law repercussions. My suggestion to you is that you persistently send polite email to those iomega folk who you think should be in positions to help you, perhaps as often as once a day, until you get some help.

If you have not yet done so, please check out the

and become part of that action, if you like. I hope that this helps. Thanks for writing! --SL, 18 June 1997]

Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 19:49:24 -0400
From: [Somebody who has asked to become anonymous.  SL, 8 July 2004]
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: consumer/computer softare/ growing trend 

[Hi, Sam! :-)

Well, you certainly have lots to say that is worth saying! ;-)

I don't know how much has occurred as a result of this Web site, Sam.

I fully concur in your criticisms of Microsoft and HP. These are not the only companies that could be mentioned. I have time to fight only iomega, under current circumstances (translation = "Nobody is paying me.").

Sorry, but I don't have time or funds to waste trying to call anybody at either of the companies you have mentioned. Feel free to link to my site, Sam! Thanks for writing!! --SL, 18 June 1997]

Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 19:28:56 -0500
From: Norman Morrison <ryocorp@internettport.net>
Reply-To: ryocorp@internettport.net
Organization: RYO CORPORATION  Cowchip/AL
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Howdies Steve 

[Hi, Norm! :-)

I am sorry that you did not see my site before buying an iomega product. I am not sure at all what to tell you about the serial number, except to say that it is always a good idea to get all the info you can from a unit and write it down on a piece of paper kept outside of the computer case, so that it is accessible after the accessory has been installed. This is one of those "learn by doing" tricks. ;) On the other hand, after you have been in and out of your computer case a number of times, the task will seem less daunting than it does the first few times. :-)

Thank you for your kind words of support, Norm! I'll be looking forward to hearing from you. --SL, 18 June 1997]

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 19:41:08 -0700
From: asiod <asiod@asu.uswest.net>
Reply-To: asiod@asu.uswest.net
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Hernandez
References: <199705180318.UAA17135@pantano.theriver.com> 

[Hi, Carlos! :))

Glad you are happy in your new work!! What is a Valley school district?

I am not into making long-distance phone calls. No money for that.

Can you just tell me what one hears at that 602-366-4700 or 4100, site 48 number you mention?

Thanks for the nice note! :))

                                                Steve 

--SL, 16 {sic --SL, 18 June 1997} June 1997]

To: s@TheRiver.COM 

Subject: Problems with Iomega
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:33:11 -0700

[Name withheld by request. --SL, 18 June 1997]

[Well, "No Name," ;)

I am not sure how I feel about trying to cripple a corporation like iomega by fair means or foul. I guess that your action and the suggestion that others do the same is not illegal, but I would much rather that all Americans would just treat each other with respect and that we could trust each other to do "what's right." We should not be reduced to finagling like that, which is really simply going to waste some trees and probably won't make much real difference to iomega's bottom line, I guess.

I hope that you have joined the

Thanks for writing! --SL, 18 June 1997]

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:58:49 +0000
From: Jordan Sparks <lifteasy@cdepot.net>
Organization: Lift Easy, Inc.
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: STRAIGHT RECORD
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/jun_1997.htm 

[Hi, again, Jordan! :-)

Thanks for the clarification. --SL, 18 June 1997]

From: Monami99@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:57:41 -0400 (EDT)
To: s@theriver.com
Subject: zip drive 

[Hi, Leo! :-)

Thank you for your supportive comment! :-)

You need to understand that when a disk crashes, whether it be a floppy, a zip, or a hard disk, it is quite possible to lose everything on the disk! That is one of the best possible reasons to do good backup of your work. I can not disagree with " ... the rest of data should be safe ... " in an ideal world, but in the real world data are never really completely safe.

The matter of liabilities when a product causes damage is one for the lawyers, Leo. As I understand it, waivers of responsibility do not always hold up in court. A good lawyer should be able to take a case like yours to court, show that iomega has admitted that its drive is responsible for the damages to your disks, and force them to pay court costs and attorney fees, and to do whatever is needed to compensate you for your losses.

Finding a good lawyer is a wholly separate matter, of course. :-|

If I were you, I would be writing to the Federal Trade Commission and United States Postal Service, detailing your problems and what actions you would like to see taken:

 

				Secretary
				Federal Trade Commission
				Washington, D.C. 20580 
and
				Chief Postal Inspector
				United States Postal Service 
				Washington, D.C. 20260-2100 

I would send copies of such letters to iomega, together with a statement that you are in the process of finding a lawyer to handle your case. This might get them "off the dime."

You might also find some useful suggestions at

I wish I could "wave a magic wand and make it all better," but each of us must do his and her own fighting, if we are to make a real difference, I think.

You may actually need to go to court on this one, assuming that both your data and the possible gratifications of winning warrant the expenditures of time and money.

Thanks for writing, Leo! Please keep me informed. --SL, 18 June 1997]

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 07:26:33 -0700
From: Ron Craig <recraig2@telcomplus.com>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: No email address for Iomega???

Steve, 

[Hi, Ron! :-)

If computers are not in charge, who is?!! ; )

Thanks for your appreciation. : )

Here is what I wrote to you earlier, today: . . . . .

Ron, if you go to

                 <http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm>

and do a File fInd (CNTL-F; at least this works in Netscape and MSIE) on "contact", you will be led to the section entitled "Call to Arms!", [under which two of the available hotlinks are]:

                 <http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/employee.htm>
and
                 <http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/contacts.htm>

In each of those files, you can do a CNTL-F (File fInd) for the "At-Sign" symbol @, which will give you more email addresses than you may want. Of course, you might enjoy finding out what happens if you send your message to every available such email address. That is a game I have not played. If you try it, please tell me the results.

     I'll put your letter and this response on the site as soon as possible, after which I'll tell you that I have done so.

     Thanks for writing! :-)

 
 

					Steve 

. . . . .

I guess that about sums it up, except that I would like to stress that writing to people persistently is quite different from spamming them, which might be illegal. I do not recommend that you do anything illegal. :-) --SL, 18 June 1997]

From: "Carey Mumford" <yoda@multipro.com>
To: "Steve Langford" <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Me Too [iomega]
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:25:24 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

[Hi, again, Carey! :-)

If you want an 8-character filename for that, I suggest CHATGREK.*. ; )

If I were you I would lay the bad disk aside and start playing with a new disk and non-essential data, to see what happens next and to try to isolate the source of the problem. Unhappily, even if another disk gets trashed, you won't know whether it is because of bad iomega disks or because of the drive itself, unless you try disks that do not carry the iomega label. Then, if a disk is trashed, you'll be able to point with greater confidence at the drive itself.

I doubt from what you say that the data are recoverable without help from iomega -- help which is expensive, we have been told.

I am already doing all I can voluntarily, what with keeping up with these pages and other volunteer commitments, Carey. If you or others would like to form a small group to act cohesively and without pay, perhaps I could help. However, what had in mind would be more capitalistic in nature and eventually would involve a great many people, whether formed as a profit or non-profit corporation.

Thanks for your feedback! :-) --SL, 19 June 1997]

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 17:55:53 -0500
From: Norman Morrison <ryocorp@internettport.net>
Reply-To: ryocorp@internettport.net
Organization: RYO CORPORATION  Cowchip/AL
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: [iomega] Howdies Steve
References: <199706182115.OAA28679@pantano.theriver.com> 

> Hi, Norm!  :)) 
 
>         Your email and my response are now at 
 
>                 <http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/jun_1997.htm> 
 
>         Thanks!  :)) 

[Hi, Norm! :-)

"Lemme know" what happens! : ) --SL, 19 June 1997]

From: JIM KRETSCHEK <JIMK@eii.com>
To: "'s@TheRiver.com'" <s@TheRiver.com>
Subject: Followup
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 97 14:58:00 PDT
Encoding: 142 TEXT 

[This discussion began above. --SL, 19 June 1997]

Actually I read or skimmed more of your site than you seem to think. I realize the complaints involve more than initial configuration. However, I still come back to a few basic points:

The main one is that you think companies should offer a certain minimum support level. So what. I mean just because I think there are ways the world could work that would suit me or other people better doesn't mean I really think the world should revolve around my way of thinking, not that I don't think that would be nice.

[You surprise me, Jim! ;)

I like that "South Pacific" line in the song "Happy Talk":

	"You gotta have a dream!  
	"If you don't have a dream, how you gonna have a dream come true?"

{OK, maybe it's two lines!}

We live in a supposed democracy, where one voice is supposed to be able to make a difference. If we all just accept "what's happening" without trying to change the things we don't like, we have abdicated our fundamental responsibilities as citizens in this nation. It is not just my right but, I believe, my duty to speak out against societal trends that I dislike and believe should be set upon a straighter course.

You seem to be trying to make me feel guilty for sharing my persuasions, here. Sorry, but that won't work.

I would die for your right to disagree and for your right to state your disagreements. That does not mean that I shall be easily persuaded to adopt your prejudices (we all have such), predilections, persuasions, or opinions.

Yes, I believe that companies should offer some free support, at least for a reasonable time period just after a product is purchased, to help their customers get up and running. Otherwise, there are hidden costs in buying products -- and such hidden costs should be illegal if they are not so already. --SL, 19 June 1997]

The thing I really don't understand is that companies are in business to make money. Obviously the fact that almost all hardware and software companies either have moved or are moving away from free support implies that the majority of customers are not willing to pay for it. In the long run for a company to stay happy it must provide what its customers want or someone else will. For the industry to be moving so solidly away from free support strongly implies that the majority of people are not willing to pay the true cost to supply that service.

[Slave owners were/are also in business to make money. Company stores that keep employees impoverished are in business to make money. That does not mean that such outfits should stay in business.

Evidently (please see above), some companies that have offered no free support are rethinking their policies, Jim! What is obvious to one is not necessarily obvious to another.

Your implication that it is important for a company to "stay happy" is on target! But should such happiness equate to increases in bottom-line profits at the expense of anybody and everybody but managers? Do managers not have at least moral or ethical responsibilities to keep their investors and their own customers happy as well? Does that not make, at least, good business sense?

Companies and corporations enter into legal agreements called contracts. Contract law is very interesting stuff. A contract is invalid if the party paying for goods or services does not receive what is paid for.

If a product is said to be easily made to work and the customer can not make it work, the customer should be able at least to get his or her money returned. However, the 3-day buyer's-remorse clause in the law, during which period a customer can return a product or cancel a new policy, does buyers of peripherals no good, if they are not able to get real help from vendors or manufacturers to install new products, during those three days.

You have called me unrealistic, but I say that it is unrealistic of you to expect customers in such a bind during the installation/configuration process to surrender and turn to those in the business of supplying technical support, at such a juncture.

Your positions in these regards suggest to me that you are either an iomega employee or are yourself in the technical-support business, though you have not stated what you do for a living and by whom you are employed. For all I know, you are an iomega lawyer. If this is true {or if you are are as well educated as you seem to be    ; )    }, then you will perhaps understand what I mean when I say that your statement "Obviously the fact that almost all hardware and software companies either have moved or are moving away from free support implies that the majority of customers are not willing to pay for it" is a non sequitur. --SL, 19 June 1997]

Have you considered that? In other words the cost to companies to provide the degree of free support you are asking for is more than the majority of customers are willing to pay.

[There is another way to interpret what is happening, which I prefer over your own interpretation:

Companies compete to sell as many units of their products as they can, as soon as they can. This has helped them to stay in business during the initial, start-up phase of the amazing computer industry.

Customers have been overwhelmed by too many products that do not work as advertised and have been drummed into accepting the situation of being guinea pigs for those getting rich by releasing beta versions and too many fix versions too quickly, each of which introduces new problems that supposedly get fixed by the next release. Although I fault Borland and Microsoft for having built empires with such unethical approaches, analogies in the hardware world must also exist.

Computer users, eager to be at the cutting edge and to get their work done as efficiently as possible (if they are anything at all like me) have been repeatedly distracted from their own work by unexpected delays due to hardware and software incompatibilities and by technical support that is too often either completely absent or might at best be described as totally incompetent. I must quickly reiterate (with reference to many such statements made elsewhere on these pages) that there are a few companies that stand out boldly against this sad backdrop, by providing empathetic, thorough, competent technical support. To stay in business while doing so, they must keep their prices higher than those of competitors who provide no such support, I infer.

I believe that the majority of consumers go for the cheapest price of a product, typically without understanding the potential complications they are letting themselves in for when they upgrade. They do not have the time or patience to research thoroughly just what configuration problems might lie ahead. They are for the most part like lambs being led to slaughter, and the computer industry has been doing little to remedy that situation, it seems to me. In fact, IMHO, too many in that industry are taking unfair if not illegal advantage of consumer naïveté.

As to your statement that "... the cost to companies to provide the degree of free support you are asking for is more than the majority of customers are willing to pay," I simply disagree and will say why below. --SL, 19 June 1997]

I propose that a reason is that most customers know so little about the equipment that if they run into any type of problem they would rather just pay someone else to figure it out. They would rather pay for the true cost of the product and support as two separate items giving them the discretion to pay for only what they need.

[I believe that the level of agony you can read on these pages, from the many consumers who expect free technical support just after they buy a peripheral, belies your conclusion. A great many of the people joining previously in the discussions at this site have solid technical expertise, though I suspect that the preponderance of respondents are not technically sophisticated. The level of technical expertise should be irrelevant if a product is sold as easy to install. If, in fact, it is NOT easy to install, in many different situations, then the corporation/company is guilty of misleading or false advertising, I believe. The onus then falls on the company to make the situation right and to give the customer either a working product or his/her money back -- and without a costly and time-wasteful fight! --SL, 19 June 1997]

This lead to my second point which is not intended as a personal attack but simply a straightforward statement. Yes, you obviously have a reasonable knowledge of computers but the bottom line is still if you need additional help on issues why should you not pay for it? Why should everyone who buys the product pay a higher price for support that they will not use in order for you to get free support? I did not address the rebate and other similar issues because I have no personal knowledge of and nothing to really toss into the discussion on those issues. The support issue is one though that I think you are seeing from a very one sided perspective.

[If I need additional help I can usually get it free from a friend or from a friendly vendor who knows that I shall give him or her my business whenever I can, once a good business relationship has been established. Customer loyalty has gone the way of loyalty to people's employers, and for the same fundamental reason: When people get screwed by people with whom they do business or for whom they work, they tend to lose loyalties!

The boom in the computer business continues, and there are enough naïve, new customers to replace the soured old salts who move on to better vendors. But the computer industry is now maturing to the point where protections should (in my humble opinion) be put into place to protect new computer users from predatory business practices.

In the long run, there will be few new users who have not benefited either from direct experience or from having watched how their families or friends have done.

When the computer industry will perforce ultimately rely principally upon repeat business, how much repeat business will it get from customers who spent, say, $3000 on computer equipment that has sat unused on a storage shelf, lo these many years ... simply because a vendor or manufacturer would not give good, free, initial product support? What kind of investment in its own future is the computer industry making, in these regards? --SL, 19 June 1997]

My real objection is that I feel that if you consider what you are saying you are in effect asking other people to pay for your support. Most people either do not need to call support or would rather pay someone else either because they just don't want to mess with it or are too intimidated by computers to do so. That is why I used the old free lunch analogy.

[No, I am not asking others to pay for my support. I usually figure out how to get the support I need, and I seldom pay directly for it, although I have sometimes had to pay long-distance phone bills when good email support would have done the job and been less costly.

I believe that most people DO need support, Jim. Handholding is now a time-honored tradition amongst computer aficionados. Those who have grown with the computer industry usually know how to find good, free handholding, whether from a friend, a computer club, or a good vendor.

{Incidentally, you can not do better if you are in Tucson than to go to the local computer store that I use,

where Ron and Phil give their customers good, old-fashioned TLC (Tender, Loving Care). My impression is that these friendly guys would rather take a loss if necessary than lose a customer. They seem to be in the business because they really love the game and love giving people the best possible guidance -- even if that means sending people to a competitor!

I don't often feel the urge to give people free advertising like this, but ABS has earned my loyalty and my friendship. Whenever I can, I give them my business and steer people in their direction.

I have never dealt by mail-order with ABS, but they might be worth trying out, wherever you live in the world! --SL, 21 June 1997}

It is for the protection of the newer computer users that I fight, here. I feel that new computer users have been and are being sucker punched by the industry.

I do not ask for a free lunch. Instead, I ask you and others to consider the benefits of building the costs of free, initial-configuration support into product prices. OK, back to your "... the cost to companies to provide the degree of free support you are asking for is more than the majority of customers are willing to pay," Jim:

What I seek is analogous to an insurance policy. Surely, even you have some home, life, or car insurance, Jim! ;) Most of the time you are paying for benefits to others who need the help at the time. If you ever need to make an insurance claim, you'll be glad for having paid all those years for somebody else's "free lunch."

I am constitutionally opposed to maintenance contracts and would prefer to see such costs built into the initial price of the product. I think that this would be far fairer, and more moral, ethical, and legal than continuing to scam the public the way things are going now. --SL, 19 June 1997]

Jim

[Jim,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You have made valuable contributions to this discussion. However, I hope that you find some reasons here to modify your thinking. --SL, 17 June 1997]

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 18:13:37 -0500
From: Norman Morrison <ryocorp@internettport.net>
Reply-To: ryocorp@internettport.net
Organization: RYO CORPORATION  Cowchip/AL
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: [iomega] Howdies Steve
References: <199706182115.OAA28679@pantano.theriver.com> 

Howdies Steve! 

	One last note. I sent 
 


this [18 June 1997 --SL, 20 June 1997] message  
 

to ISN: 
http://www.isn.com

[Hi, again, Norm! :-)

When did you send that to ISN, please? Thanks for sharing it here! --SL, 19 June 1997]

Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 10:53:02 -0400
From: Bruce Witzel <Cuzzzzz@worldnet.att.net>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega 

[Hi, Bruce! :-)

GOT it! :-)

Thanks for sharing your sad stories and sound opinions! : ) --SL, 19 June 1997]

From: John Viele <JohnV@CMSOPEN.COM>
To: "'Steve Langford'" <s@theriver.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Oh how I love my Jaz Drive
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 16:27:26 -0400

Steve: 

[Thanks for the update, John! :-)

Glad to know you have things working now, at least!! --SL, 19 June 1997]

Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 14:16:18 -0700 (MST)
Subject: iomega
From: jason <mjf473t@nic.smsu.edu>
To: s@TheRiver.com 

[Hi, Jason! :-)

Thank you for your concise statement in support of iomega! I hope that your system never gives you a moment of trouble.

Thanks for writing!! --SL, 20 June 1997]

X-Sender: rbass@surfsouth.com
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:38:22 -0400
To: Steve Langford <s@theriver.com>
From: Bob Bass <rbass@surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: iomega got me to 

[Thanks again, Bob! : )

I already had the voice number, but I believe that the FAX number is new to this site.

Your support is greatly appreciated, Bob! --SL, 21 June 1997]

X-Originating-IP: [169.207.41.60]
From: "Ron Gollonik" <midnightt@hotmail.com>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/action.htm
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:25:00 PDT 

[Gee, Ron! ; )

If you were to come back more often, your cache would help by making the loading of my site that much faster! *grin*

Seriously, though, I have been breaking this site into smaller and smaller pieces since its inception. If I have just counted correctly, there are 47 separate pages associated already with this site.

However, breaking especially the Home Page into smaller parts might well make good sense, nowadays. How would YOU do it? Particular suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks for your supportive remarks, Ron! --SL, 21 June 1997]

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:18:44 -0500
From: Daniel M Rothschild <dr@icsi.net>
Reply-To: dr@icsi.net
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega rebate

Mr. Langford: 

 

        Daniel  M Rothschild 

[Hi, Daniel! : ) )

Well, you really know about as much as I do about how the lawsuit is going. I do not know whether a court date has been set. I have several emails in to the rebate lawyers with no recent response. Perhaps they are on vacation! ; )

Have you joined the rebate lawsuit?

Thanks for writing, Daniel! --SL, 21 June 1997]

Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 15:53:05 -0700
From: Tom Dowling <hudson@bigfoot.com>
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: jazz 

[Hi, Tom! :-)

Thanks for your kind words and for sharing your story, here.

I am very sorry to learn of your problems with your iomega jaz drive. Perhaps some reader (one who has not been burned, still likes that system, and wants a bargain) will offer you some money for your jaz carts.

I wish I could offer you more than solace. --SL, 24 June 1997]

Reply-To: "Anthony Simek" <atsimek@futureone.com>
From: "Anthony Simek" <atsimek@futureone.com>
To: 
Subject: You
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 00:26:37 -0700
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE Engine V4.71.0544.0 

[Hi, Tony! :-)

With all due respect, Tony, I think that you are missing a lot, here!

If you take more time than you seem to have taken to read these pages, you will discover that the cost of the zip drive is really not an issue. In fact, I can find internal IDE zip drives for $119.99 and either parallel or SCSI external zip drives for $139.99, now.

I am pleased that $149 is a trivial price for you to pay for something. However, with great confidence, I assure you that such remains a considerable cost, for many people around the world ... including many Americans. Some other considerations are even more important than that, though, I believe.

First, I wonder at what price you would feel that such efforts would not be a waste of time? What if the price of the zip drive were $1499.99? Would that change your attitude?

My point here is that when a corporation like iomega sells millions of inexpensive units and rips people off in various ways, along the way, a few people are getting very rich, but at the expense of many people who, like you, consider the dollar amounts not to be worth a battle. That seems to me to be why such corporations can get away with such predatory practices. So, I fight.

Not only that, but a closer reading of these pages will disclose to you that people are complaining that whatever they have paid for their zip drive/s (or other iomega product/s), if anything goes wrong, the cost for initial installation and configuration is far beyond the original price of the product -- and many people feel that such hidden costs represent immoral, unethical, or illegal business practices on the part of iomega.

Furthermore, a wider reading of this site will show you that complaints never are against the advertised price paid for an iomega product, but are about

 
 

	1. poor quality control,

	2. problems with rebates, 

	3. lack of customer service,

	4. lack of customer support, 

	5. dissemination of confusing, misleading, and 
	   incorrect information, 

	6. rude iomega employees, 

	7. farming out of American jobs to Malaysia, 

	8. use of child labor in a foreign nation, 

	9. charges for technical-support calls, even when 
	   the product is brand new, 

and so on -- no matter which iomega product is involved.

Tony, there are principles involved in this fight; questions that go way beyond those involving the initial cost of a zip drive! It may be ridiculously old-fashioned, these days, to be concerned with matters of principle. If that is what you believe, then call me "old-fashioned"! I've certainly been called worse than that! ; )

Thanks for writing. --SL, 26 June 1997]

From: woda@hpu.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:28:32 -0700
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: "I-OWE-MEGA"
X-URL: http://personal.riverusers.com/~s/jun_1997.htm 

[Aloha to You, too! ; )

Thanks for your warm support. I hope that you have already joined the

Thanks for writing! --SL, 26 June 1997]

From: dsentz@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 14:22:34 -0400
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: Iomega (what else)

[Hi, Dave! :-)

Thank you for taking the time to read my pages so thoroughly! (I sometimes wonder whether some respondents have given the site more than a minute before firing something in my direction.) Thank you for your kind words, as well!

I am pleased that you have decided to join the rebate-related class-action lawsuit against iomega. I do not have any recent information as to how that action is proceeding, but I hope that it will at least get iomega corporation's attention. Hopefully, it will provide many people with some long-overdue compensation, well beyond the original rebate amounts.

I hope that you continue to have no need for technical "support" from iomega.

I would like to have been able to give iomega the benefit of the doubt, as to its having simply "grown up" too fast. However, the corporation has been around at least since the mid-1980s, and the more I learn about how they treat people, the less inclined I am to give them any such benefit of the doubt.

Unhappily, I have become convinced (rightly or wrongly) that these people are exploring the very thin surface that separates legal from illegal behavior, and that they do so in search of maximizing profits, probably mostly those of managers. (Most corporations pay only lip service to benefiting even their own stockholders, these days, it seems. I have no reason to believe that iomega has the long-term well-being of its stockholders as a greater concern than that of maximizing, say, the CEO's total-compensation package.)

Thank you for sharing your concerns about iomega! I wish that I could say that iomega is singular in being outstandingly bad in the areas addressed by people discussing problems at this Web site. Although it may be the worst corporation I know of, in terms of customer support, I am convinced that there are many other corporations out there that are treating people just as badly. Perhaps somebody else (you, Dear Reader?) can take some time to confront other individual companies in ways similar to those I have used while dealing with iomega's many, outstanding problems.

Thanks for writing, Dave! --SL, 27 June 1997]

Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:15:23 -0700
From: Legend 

To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: ZIP Tools 

[Name, company name, and email address deleted by request. --SL, 28 June 1997]
[No Name]
Software Consultant
[No Company Name]
[No email address]

P.S. Feel free to use these comments on your sight, but please remove my name, e-mail and company name. Thanks.

[Hi, "Friend"! ;-)

I downloaded my own Tools 5.0 (which I have never installed, as I operate on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" principle, and I would hate to need any help from iomega) from the site at

which is still active, but at which I now see no mention of Tools 5.0, per se!

It may or may not be true that you can get Zip Tools 5.0 together with the stuff in

"Windows 95 Drivers for					File Name
ZIP, Jaz, and Bernoulli 
Version 5.2 

This is the current release of the Iomega 
Windows 95 driver set. This driver set replaces 
the native driver for Iomega products that comes 
with Windows 95. 					win9552.exe [1.6M] " 

However (thanks to some correspondence above), at

I find " ZipTools update from Micron tech support for IDE Zip drives under Win95. Here a local copy of the Micron tech-note about this update," with reference to file zipremid.exe; as well as " Zip and Jaz Tools for Win95 (despite filename, this is for both drives) " in file jaz52w95.exe.

It does indeed seem that iomega has decided no longer to permit people freely to download zip tools 5.0. I guess that I can not argue with such a business decision, though it is not very kind to customers who are used to better treatment from technical-support departments. Of course, I may simply not be able to find where iomega is now providing such stuff as downloads -- but I have spent considerable time and effort, here, in searching for something that you could get directly from iomega ... without success.

I hope this helps, "Friend"!

--SL, 28 June 1997, noting that people in your hemisphere are a day ahead of us]

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 02:13:47 -0700
From: MOTY <vidbits@idt.net>
Reply-To: vidbits@idt.net
Organization: MOTY
To: s@TheRiver.com
Subject: zip!  Crash! 

[Hi, MOTY! :-)

Sorry, this is a new one to me. Maybe someone who reads this can help you.

I know how you feel about paying such prices for "technical support"! Can't say as I blame you.

Thanks for writing. --SL, 1 July 1997]

(Your letter could go here.)




Earlier correspondence can be found at the following pages: 
 
August 1997 Correspondence

July 1997 Correspondence

May 1997 Correspondence
 
April 1997 Correspondence

March 1997 Correspondence

February 1997 Correspondence

January 1997 Correspondence

December 1996 Correspondence

Mail received 10OCT96 to 13NOV96

My responses to mail received 10OCT96 to 13NOV96 
 



 
  

©Stephen A. Langford, Oro Valley, Arizona, 6 August 1997.  
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  
This document may be freely transmitted in its entirety, 
so long as no monies are earned during the transaction/s.  
Permission is required for any and all other pertinent circumstances.




 (Metering for this page was begun on 15 June 1997.)